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How Being a Doctor Became the Most Miserable Profession

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61–70 of 147 posts

Re: How Being a Doctor Became the Most Miserable Profession

#61

This is completely a story of industry structure and bad incentives, and how people react to them. Currently, in the United States, we believe all of the following things: (1) Human physicians, are the only qualified parties to diagnose, treat, and/or recommend courses of action related to health (not nurses, physician's assistants, computer programs, etc.), (2) everyone has a fundamental right to healthcare, (3) hea…

Point of clarification: physician assistants are qualified to diagnose, treat, and recommend courses of action related to health care. Per the American Academy of Physician Assistants: "PAs perform physical examinations, diagnose and treat illnesses, order and interpret lab tests, perform procedures, assist in surgery, provide patient education and counseling and make rounds in hospitals and nursing homes. All 50 sta…

Interesting. This seems like a step in the right direction. What can't PAs do, that MDs can?

Re: How Being a Doctor Became the Most Miserable Profession

#62
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One solid reason is the same reason sleep deprivation is used in basic training. Most doctors, will, at some point in their life, have to make life and death decisions when they're operating far from 100% ... or at least that was true back in the days when they'd take calls at any hour of the day (as late as the '70s). Less dire, they have office hours they must keep unless they're really sick, and they certainly won…

Not sure why you were downvoted, but this is the exact reason that a couple of my relatives in medical profession gave when asked why their training involved 24-36 hour shifts routinely with very few sleep breaks.

I think it makes sense in training (under supervision), it's just doing it as an all encompassing lifestyle that I think makes no sense.

Re: How Being a Doctor Became the Most Miserable Profession

#63

This is completely a story of industry structure and bad incentives, and how people react to them. Currently, in the United States, we believe all of the following things: (1) Human physicians, are the only qualified parties to diagnose, treat, and/or recommend courses of action related to health (not nurses, physician's assistants, computer programs, etc.), (2) everyone has a fundamental right to healthcare, (3) hea…

give medical professionals more operational and financial freedom to run their practices using tried-and-true free-market principles.

They are not tried and true. A friend of mine worked as a QA engineer at my city's most prominent children's hospital (a minor power on the world stage). His thankless task was to find ways to improve communications between departments and curb the errors. It was simply not possible - every doctor had their preferred provider, sometimes from merit, sometimes because they liked the shiny goodies that the sales reps brought.

All the individual systems interoperated very poorly, and none of the physicians would budge, and the hospital administration could not force their hand. Any time admin tried to regularise something, the affected physician would just state "If we make this change, children will die". It didn't matter that everyone at the table new that this was a total lie, because the official authority for that department (or speciality) was that specialist. They got their 'free market', being able to use their preferred products for each individual specialist, for personal preference at the cost of better overall treatment. The whole was very much less the sum of its parts.

Another friend became a sales rep for a pharma company. The rep she took over from was a fairly standard rep, but she was quite ethical, and would only allow her 'freebie' budget to be used on things that developed the practise. Some doctors already do this. Others were more like "ah, well, the ride is over with this rep". Some were absolutely outraged that she should dictate to them what this 'extra income' was spent on - how dare she suggest medical charts instead of football tickets?

I myself have personally seen a specialist in a field report on some clinical studies so badly that we technicians had to go to other specialists and get them redone. That specialist didn't get any more of that kind of work at our practise, but his utter incompetence was never followed up beyond "don't hire him again".

I guess the moral of the stories are that freedom to run practises as you see fit does not mean ethical (or even ethically neutral) behaviour, and that an environment where every physician uses their preferred products does not mean better care is delivered.

Re: How Being a Doctor Became the Most Miserable Profession

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point of clarification: physician assistants are qualified to diagnose, treat, and recommend courses of action related to health care. Per the American Academy of Physician Assistants: "PAs perform physical examinations, diagnose and treat illnesses, order and interpret lab tests, perform procedures, assist in surgery, provide patient education and counseling and make rounds in hospitals and nursing homes. All 50 sta…

Interesting. This seems like a step in the right direction. What can't PAs do, that MDs can?

Just FYI nurse practitioners (NPs) can also diagnose/prescribe/refer. I happen to know this because my mom's finishing up school to become one. When she's finished, she'll get a huge pay bump, and have quite a few options open to her. A clinic at Walgreens, for example, is often staffed by a nurse practitioner. Cheaper than a doctor, but with their general prescriptive abilities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurse_practitioner

Re: How Being a Doctor Became the Most Miserable Profession

#65

> In fact, physicians are so bummed out that 9 out of 10 doctors would discourage anyone from entering the profession. OP missed a perfect headline opportunity: "9 out of 10 doctors recommend not becoming a doctor." But seriously, we wonder what's wrong with healthcare. I seriously believe it's because of the lawsuit-happy nature of patients nowadays. Yeah, something could go wrong during your surgery, or your diagno…

Anecdotally, nonpayment is a much bigger problem than lawsuits. I remember listening to the CEO of Carle, a large Central Illinois healthcare chain, talking about this, and saying that "we expect to collect 60 cents of every dollar we bill".

It's a revenue optimization problem -- the goal is to collect the most revenue overall. Set prices too high and people/insurance goes elsewhere, too low and you leave money on the table the org could use to cross-subsidize non-payers.

Re: How Being a Doctor Became the Most Miserable Profession

#66
post #60

> In fact, physicians are so bummed out that 9 out of 10 doctors would discourage anyone from entering the profession. OP missed a perfect headline opportunity: "9 out of 10 doctors recommend not becoming a doctor." But seriously, we wonder what's wrong with healthcare. I seriously believe it's because of the lawsuit-happy nature of patients nowadays. Yeah, something could go wrong during your surgery, or your diagno…

I've read that malpractice insurance is a few thousand dollars a year and the premiums have been going down.

depends where you live. a doctor in nyc could pay $30K/yr while one in kansas $2k/yr

Re: How Being a Doctor Became the Most Miserable Profession

#67
post #7

The biggest problem is just the AMA. They limit the number of doctors in America, so there are just too few. This drives up the salaries for the few doctors who live the tell the tale (but certainly don't want to go into primary care, when other more lucrative jobs are on offer), and drives up the hours for everyone. Making it easier to become a doctor would improve things immediately (especially given the recent res…

[deleted]

Re: How Being a Doctor Became the Most Miserable Profession

#68
post #7

The biggest problem is just the AMA. They limit the number of doctors in America, so there are just too few. This drives up the salaries for the few doctors who live the tell the tale (but certainly don't want to go into primary care, when other more lucrative jobs are on offer), and drives up the hours for everyone. Making it easier to become a doctor would improve things immediately (especially given the recent res…

I am a doctor, an anesthesiologist. I don't like AMA. But to blame AMA is a complete nonsense. (AMA really is just an insurance and loan agency, just like AARP.)

The real problem is government regulation of our profession, of the whole clinical process, and of devices and medications.

Those of you who go up in arms when government sticks its nose in your internet business, should imagine how it is to deal with the government that is there all the time for us. For example, how about trying to bill Medicare for a surgery, when one phrase--one phrase-- is missing from the documentation, and I don't get a penny for a 4 hour surgery?

Re: How Being a Doctor Became the Most Miserable Profession

#69
post #68
post #7

The biggest problem is just the AMA. They limit the number of doctors in America, so there are just too few. This drives up the salaries for the few doctors who live the tell the tale (but certainly don't want to go into primary care, when other more lucrative jobs are on offer), and drives up the hours for everyone. Making it easier to become a doctor would improve things immediately (especially given the recent res…

I am a doctor, an anesthesiologist. I don't like AMA. But to blame AMA is a complete nonsense. (AMA really is just an insurance and loan agency, just like AARP.) The real problem is government regulation of our profession, of the whole clinical process, and of devices and medications. Those of you who go up in arms when government sticks its nose in your internet business, should imagine how it is to deal with the go…

http://www.scpr.org/programs/airtalk/2014/04/15/6508/ can you comment on this radio segment please?

Re: How Being a Doctor Became the Most Miserable Profession

#70

This is completely a story of industry structure and bad incentives, and how people react to them. Currently, in the United States, we believe all of the following things: (1) Human physicians, are the only qualified parties to diagnose, treat, and/or recommend courses of action related to health (not nurses, physician's assistants, computer programs, etc.), (2) everyone has a fundamental right to healthcare, (3) hea…

> greater human trust in computers and recommendation systems

I am an MD and have a degree in CS. Expert systems are not remotely there yet for this purpose. On no planet would I trust care of my patients to a computer. Far too many subtleties involved in accurate diagnosis and treatment that are not encoded in a machine-readable format.

> legal regime which mandates DOCTORS perform procedures, and only after a lengthy course of study

Good reasons for this - it actually takes that lengthy course of study to safely perform many procedures, and, more importantly, to fix things when they go wrong.

NPs and PAs are helpful but based on the quality of care that I personally observe they should not function without physician oversight.

There is no escaping that medicine is an extremely complex field, and it is only getting more so. Not long ago, many of the people who today are restored to their usual state of health would simply have died. The sicker a patient is, the more complex and difficult to manage they are. By definition a doctor is the one who is able to do so.

I am still waiting to meet a patient who comes to the hospital and prefers to have their care rendered by non-physician providers over physicians, or would even settle if there were an option.

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