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Krueger Statement on Use of Airbnb for Floating Brothels

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Re: Krueger Statement on Use of Airbnb for Floating Brothels

#61

Post by hippoman »

jmathai wrote: post #12
aalpbalkan wrote: post #10

> (underlined) Today it's a prostitution ring, tomorrow it could be an illegal gambling ring, and maybe next week it could be a drug operation. This is textbook 'slippery slope' fallacy. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope You said that if we allow A to happen, then Z will eventually happen too, therefore A should not happen.

Perhaps something like " allowing same sex marriage today will lead to humans marrying animals tomorrow " is a fallacy. This seems very well reasoned. I hope you're not implying that we can't make reasoned assumptions and take actions based off them. Also there's actual law breaking going on here. I love and use AirBnb but the lady has some great points.

That kind of progression really happened. "Perhaps allowing interracial marriage today will lead to men marrying other men tomorrow". Gay marriage was unthinkable a hundred years ago. The ideas that are acceptable to society change over time and we can't be so arrogant as to assume our current set of values is correct while all the previous ones were wrong and no future ones will make ours look wrong. You can already see attitudes towards drug use changing to the point where Krueger's "drug operations" seem harmless to many people today.

Re: Krueger Statement on Use of Airbnb for Floating Brothels

#62

Post by tetrep »

tpeng wrote: post #54

The issue is not between AirBNB and its customers; its customers can evaluate the risks of renting on AirBNB, and factor that into their rental price, as well as insure for adverse outcomes. The real issue is that AirBNB also imposes these risks on communities (i.e., AirBNB's customers' neighbors) by exposing them to, in the worst case, criminal elements, but even in a normal case, temporary renters who lack incentiv…

>AirBNB also imposes these risks on communities...

The person renting to AirBNB is the one imposing the risks. If communities are being put at risk it is by the willful actions of their own members.

>...AirBNB needs to work with regulators...

Why involve more parties than needed? How do communities currently deal with "bad apples?"

If we assume the community is functionally equipped to handle permanent residents who are undesirable, but not temporary ones, why not just apply the same rules to temporary residents? The permanent resident would bear responsibility for their guest(s). This would keep the solution in the same domain as the problem, the community.

Re: Krueger Statement on Use of Airbnb for Floating Brothels

#63

Post by jmathai »

hippoman wrote: post #61
jmathai wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps something like " allowing same sex marriage today will lead to humans marrying animals tomorrow " is a fallacy. This seems very well reasoned. I hope you're not implying that we can't make reasoned assumptions and take actions based off them. Also there's actual law breaking going on here. I love and use AirBnb but the lady has some great points.

That kind of progression really happened. "Perhaps allowing interracial marriage today will lead to men marrying other men tomorrow". Gay marriage was unthinkable a hundred years ago. The ideas that are acceptable to society change over time and we can't be so arrogant as to assume our current set of values is correct while all the previous ones were wrong and no future ones will make ours look wrong. You can already…

Agreed. But the laws of today have to apply to society as we know of today. I'm all for forward progress but we can't make laws for how our evolved selves.

In 10 years same opposing sex marriage might the same as opposing interracial marriage is today. But we're not there and the laws have to reflect what society as a whole is ready for.

Sad but true.

Re: Krueger Statement on Use of Airbnb for Floating Brothels

#64

Post by hippoman »

schrodinger wrote: post #36
PeterisP wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my neighbour chooses to work as a prostitute in their apartment, or rent their apartment to someone who happens to be a prostitute - that's not nearly the end of the world, you know, they're people too, just with a comparably hard/unpleasant profession. An active neighbour can easily be bringing some stranger they picked up at a bar twice each night; if that stranger pays afterwards then that doesn't change anythi…

In this case it's a prostitution ring, which isn't really the same as a long term neighbor who happens to sleep around a lot. I think someone who calls an apartment home rather then stopping there once and never coming back will be more respectful.

You seem to be saying stable prostitutes or brothels are OK even though they are also illegal in those buildings. I agree with the parent that a promiscuous person is effectively a prostitute with the distinction being only an arbitrary legal one. As you say though, the temporary nature of their stay is probably the real problem.

Re: Krueger Statement on Use of Airbnb for Floating Brothels

#65

Post by tpeng »

tetrep wrote: post #62
tpeng wrote: post #54

The issue is not between AirBNB and its customers; its customers can evaluate the risks of renting on AirBNB, and factor that into their rental price, as well as insure for adverse outcomes. The real issue is that AirBNB also imposes these risks on communities (i.e., AirBNB's customers' neighbors) by exposing them to, in the worst case, criminal elements, but even in a normal case, temporary renters who lack incentiv…

>AirBNB also imposes these risks on communities... The person renting to AirBNB is the one imposing the risks. If communities are being put at risk it is by the willful actions of their own members. >...AirBNB needs to work with regulators... Why involve more parties than needed? How do communities currently deal with "bad apples?" If we assume the community is functionally equipped to handle permanent residents who…

Would you say that oil companies do not impose environmental externalities, but that the guilt solely falls on drivers who consume gasoline? No, the company bears some responsibility.

As to your second question, this is a public policy issue, and there will be a policy response whether AirBNB likes it or not. I think it would be smart for AirBNB to engage in the policy conversation.

Re: Krueger Statement on Use of Airbnb for Floating Brothels

#67

Post by Terr_ »

sadfaceunread wrote: post #3
mturmon wrote: post #2

From the press release: "Prostitution wasn't really at the top of our minds when we passed the 2010 law helping NYC enforce against illegal short-term rentals, but in hindsight it seems kind of obvious." You have to admit, I think the enterprising minds here at HN also failed to foresee this.

The retroactive obviousness of it does seem quite incredible. People get hotel rooms to do things they don't want to do at home. AirBnB is a hotel substitute. I wonder if AirBnB internally had some risk assessment of this.

Or to quote Terry Pratchett in Going Postal:

> Everyone knew it happened. Actually, the new management probably didn't, but wouldn't have done anything about it if they'd found out, apart from carefully forgetting that they'd known.

Re: Krueger Statement on Use of Airbnb for Floating Brothels

#68

Post by zymhan »

dkarapetyan wrote: post #66

Wait. Isn't this a problem with motels and other temporary housing situations as well? What makes Airbnb so special?

Because Airbnb is used to rent out rooms or houses that aren't in areas zoned for hotel/motel purposes. No one can reasonably expect that living in a motel room and living in an apartment are similar. The other tenants in the building of the Airbnb user can be reasonably expected not to have to deal with tourists being discourteous or annoying in their building.

Re: Krueger Statement on Use of Airbnb for Floating Brothels

#69

Post by [deleted] »

brownbat wrote: post #53

We have some inconsistent intuitions about what the government should be allowed to regulate. It seems like I should be able to give a neighbor's kid a 20 to pick up some leaves without getting the government involved. It seems like I should be able to give a friend a dollar for running and grabbing me a coke without consulting minimum wage laws or local sales taxes. I should be able to lend my cousin some money with…

[deleted]

Re: Krueger Statement on Use of Airbnb for Floating Brothels

#70

Post by PeterisP »

teacup50 wrote: post #55
fleitz wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing that since the person in the article was informed by the police and not her neighbors, that no one had any clue.

How does that conclusion make even the smallest bit of sense to you?

The point is that any inconvenience to neighbours from such a 'brothel' is hypothetical - nobody even noticed that it was there, so they definitely weren't harmed in any way.
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