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Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

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Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#61

Post by ryguytilidie »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #52
jack-r-abbit wrote: post #9

Meh. Prop 8 passed the people's vote with 7,001,084 Californians voting in favor of it and 6,401,482 voting against. Are we to start boycotting every company that employs one of those 7 million people? I'm glad it was made right in the end and I hope at least some of those 7 million people have changed their opinion... but I don't think we need to keep dwelling on it.

Welcome to Hacker News, bastion of intellectual freedom, where large number of people will now argue that you should be deprived of employment because you donated money to certain unpopular political campaigns. Next steps include: calling for the resignation of anyone who voted Republican in a recent election.

That is a fantastically creative straw man you just beat up there...

Yes, because some people are boycotting a company because their founder voted to take away their civil rights, those people are bad. Nevermind the fact that the person they're criticizing not only voted for, but provided financial support for civil rights to be taken away.

But yeah, this basically means people will call for all Republicans to quit their job...?

It's pretty incredible how good Republicans are at convincing themselves they're the victim. In a country run by the Republican party based on Christian laws. Just lol, must be tough having people criticize you for taking away other people's rights. I feel terrible for you guys. Now those peoples rights you took away? Nah, they deserved it!

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#62

Post by [deleted] »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #39
tptacek wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This issue is uncomfortably political for HN, but I feel like I should chime in to say that HN is clearly not split down the middle about support for Eich's political position. I haven't seen a single comment defending it.

I'll happily defend the man's right to hold all sorts of inappropriate and unpopular opinions. Do we want the tech community to be some kind of PC witch hunt, where people who say or do unpopular things will be banned from employment? If that's the case, then that's wrong -- and it hurts the tech community at large for it to be that way. This is a witch hunt. It may be a witch hunt for good reasons, and for a cause I…

[deleted]

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#63

Post by vezzy-fnord »

xupybd wrote: post #49

I understand why people could get offended about this. But as I understand it most who oppose this have a religious reason to do so. Now religion is as deeply person and important to a person as is the right to marry. So where do we draw the line on what we allow others to think, believe or support? As a for instance my Aunty is vegan and is offended that I or any one else would ever eat meat. And I know eating meat…

There's actually other reasons one could support Prop 8 without necessarily being anti-LGBT. This includes an opposition to all marriage in general, or a desire to keep the traditionalist definition of "marriage" and have the same rights for non-traditional couples under a different moniker, a perceived triviality of the issue (whether rationally justified or not) and so on.

I do not approve of his actions, but there's plenty of other variants besides "Eich is a despicable homophobe."

Of course, outrage porn is very popular in our interconnected society these days. As for me, I'll keep using Mozilla's products and learn to draw a line between technical accomplishments and political views. Mozilla's contributions to FOSS are far too great to brush them off over something like this.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#64

Post by jroseattle »

Karellen wrote: post #50
lawl wrote: post #4

I totally see how this could upset people. But I'm not sure how his management qualities are tied to his political opinions. It's the same with politicans, what the fuck has an affair to do with their political views? I 100% support gay marriage. I also understand they're upset. But I don't know if this is the right reaction.

"what the fuck has an affair to do with their political views?" Uh, integrity? If a politician won't keep probably the most solemn vow they've ever made, to the person they were most committed to in their life, in front of all the other people they care about most, why the fuck do you think they'll keep some fucking campaign promise to you and a bunch of other faceless citizens they've never met to make your lives be…

"If a politician won't keep probably the most solemn vow they've ever made, to the person they were most committed to in their life"

Not to stray from the point of the article, but the politician analogy is very appropriate. My wife is a former lobbyist, and I've met and grown to know many prominent politicians from a behind-the-scenes perspective.

The number of arranged marriages, to the point that it's mostly a business relationship, is really common, especially at the national level. Most of the time, the politician's "spouse" is really just their operations manager.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#65

Post by Camillo »

I'd like to urge everyone to consider whether it's a good idea to comment on this story. If you voice an opinion in support of Eich, obviously that's going to be a liability in the future. But voicing an opinion against him is also a liability - there is no telling how the zeitgeist might change ten or twenty years from now. I think it's best to voice no opinion at all - and I hope this comment is not misconstrued as support for any particular position.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#66

Post by smirksirlot »

xupybd wrote: post #49

I understand why people could get offended about this. But as I understand it most who oppose this have a religious reason to do so. Now religion is as deeply person and important to a person as is the right to marry. So where do we draw the line on what we allow others to think, believe or support? As a for instance my Aunty is vegan and is offended that I or any one else would ever eat meat. And I know eating meat…

Just because your religion says so doesn't mean I have to follow it. I'm not trying to make you change your religion - you can live the way you want - but that is not the way I want.

The appropriate middle ground is just that. You can be as religious as you want, tell me that I live in sin etc., but you don't get to force me to not be with the person I love. Similarly, I don't get to force legislation to make everyone atheist.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#68

Post by vezzy-fnord »

bsder wrote: post #54
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #30

I think people would be much more serene if they stopped idolizing certain programmers, computer scientists and tech people in general as demigods. As influential, intelligent and wise as they may be, they are quite fallible, and their political views are very likely to be a volatile mess, like most other people. If it's any consolation, there has yet to be a cult tech figure who is a neo-Nazi/white nationalist or an…

> The world would be a much better place if we could learn to separate the artist's work from the artist's personal deeds and opinions. In what way does that make the world a better place? Why should we celebrate an artist who does shitty things when there is almost certainly someone equally as talented who does not?

It'll stop us from getting consistently outraged at various people over their personal convictions and save us more energy to enjoy their work, which is often unrelated to the former.

Talent is a highly subjective measure. No doubt there are people as equally or more talented than Eich, but he is the creator of JavaScript, which is the fundamental language of the web and everyone's favorite double-clawed hammer to hammer in nails with, whether you like it or not.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#69

Post by kevincrane »

nemothekid wrote: post #56
bsder wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn't we? If you aren't willing to take the social consequences of your actions, perhaps you should not take those actions, hmmmm?

Its scary how people jump to these conclusions once their views are those of the flavor of the month. I'd hate to be unemployable because my views don't confirm to that of the majority. Imagine saying this to guy who attempted to stand up for civil rights in the 1920s. The world makes you believe that this type of thinking is gone when really its just painted a different color.

Wanting gay people to be able to have the same rights as you is hardly a "flavor of the month."

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#70

Post by bsder »

nemothekid wrote: post #56
bsder wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn't we? If you aren't willing to take the social consequences of your actions, perhaps you should not take those actions, hmmmm?

Its scary how people jump to these conclusions once their views are those of the flavor of the month. I'd hate to be unemployable because my views don't confirm to that of the majority. Imagine saying this to guy who attempted to stand up for civil rights in the 1920s. The world makes you believe that this type of thinking is gone when really its just painted a different color.

Well, if you don't buy the fundamental rights argument, let's try a simple utilitarian argument.

The computer industry, especially in Silicon Valley and San Francisco, employs an abnormally high percentage of people who identify as LGBT. The fact that your company will now have trouble recruiting from that group of individuals places your company at a business disadvantage and makes you unfit to lead such a business.

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