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How to be a sane programmer

nicholascloud.com

61–70 of 82 posts

Re: How to be a sane programmer

#61
post #47
post #43

> Programming, like writing, painting, and music, is chiefly a creative endeavor not a technical one. Practice... will not make you a substantially better programmer. It will just make you more efficient with your tools. Show me a world-class writer who doesn't obsess about his writing with every waking moment. Show me a master painter who doesn't paint every single chance she gets. And show me a music prodigy who ha…

I think there is a middle ground between the OP and your comment. I agree with you that the best way to get good at programming is to program. But I also agree with the OP that having other hobbies, interests and letting your mind work on different things will also help you. The ideal balance is some mix of side projects and hobbies.

What if there is just another dimension to this?

OP could be wired to be very productive if he doesn't have side projects and instead focuses on hobbies.

yangez's examples (parent of your comment) could be wired to only be very productive if they do nothing but become immersed in their work.

What if some of us can only thrive with imbalance by nature?

Re: How to be a sane programmer

#62
post #2

Heres the problem I have with this entire discussion -- and this post does address it a bit -- but programming IS a creative role and needs to be treated as such. Many organizations hire programmers as technical roles, but they are generally creatives. A lot of them are night owls, who ebb and flow between long productive stints and proverbial 'writers block'. Many of the best developers I know have a creative desire…

>but programming IS a creative role and needs to be treated as such.

We need to distinguish between creators and people who just implement, because there is a lot of work that doesn't involve new ideas. Complicating this is the fuzziness between the titles 'engineer' and 'programmer' and 'developer'.

Much of this just seems like growing pains for a field that's relatively new to humanity.

Re: How to be a sane programmer

#63
post #15

I think problem are working conditions. Modern programmer is expected to work in coffee shop on tiny laptop, practically worst conditions imaginable. If I ask for decent private office and 3x32" screens I just get blank faces and bullshit excuses. Since I started working for myself remotely, I can sustain 10 hours of uninterrupted concentration. Before in office it was more like 30 minutes of concentration per day.

Or worse. In a crowded office that can't control its climate with small screens and poor equipment. The equipment makes a lot of difference, I agree, as does the environment. It's unfortunate that many companies do not realize this and implement policies to cut costs that end up just hurting productivity in general and their bottom lines in the end. To not see this from a management or executive POV is to be intentionally blind. It's a loss all around from the individual to the whole company and one that can't be mitigated against any other way.

Re: How to be a sane programmer

#64
post #43

> Programming, like writing, painting, and music, is chiefly a creative endeavor not a technical one. Practice... will not make you a substantially better programmer. It will just make you more efficient with your tools. Show me a world-class writer who doesn't obsess about his writing with every waking moment. Show me a master painter who doesn't paint every single chance she gets. And show me a music prodigy who ha…

>And show me a music prodigy who hasn't slogged through 15 years of mind-numbing practice every single day.

I think you'll find most music prodigies spend hours lost in playing beautiful music. Very different from mind-numbing.

Re: How to be a sane programmer

#65
I used to find, btw, the pressure of programming difficult to deal with on an ongoing basis. Then one day it occurred to me:

Perfection in the big projects doesn't matter. The world is full of crap software. Perfection in the little pieces however really matters, and this makes it possible to build better software.

I still have stressful days, usually involving bug reports and unhappy users. However, for the most part that realization meant that rather than the stress being an ongoing thing, sometimes lasting days or weeks, it became an occasional thing usually lasting only hours, and the sense of beauty in seeing successful things come together has become more common. That doesn't mean you spend time chasing perfection on every little detail because a lot of things are legitimate tradeoffs and you won't know some deficiencies until it is actually used.

To me that is craftsmanship.

Re: How to be a sane programmer

#66
I recently felt the pinch of stress at work...it wasn't due to being overworked though - it was due to being overstressed, due to insane work deadlines that had me concerned about getting stuff done on time. I'm starting to balance that aspect of my life better, with the realization that I shouldn't drive myself crazy just to meet the deadlines given to me. It's ok to let deadlines slip by if they were unreasonable to begin with, but still do the best I reasonably can.

Re: How to be a sane programmer

#67
Disclaimer: Off Topic

I am feeling like this (burnout/mental sickness of programmers) is becoming a successful theme on HN lately. Many-many posts are popping up to front page.

Not like it's a bad thing, being myself a victim it feels good to read experience of fellow coders who has seen what I am about to see or how to avoid seeing it, but still, it is becoming a theme. I am imagining hordes of posts on this topic coming up. Or may be we already have 'em, just the good ones are popping up to front page.

There are actually more than one pattern emerging. I think I gotta hint of for writing posts more likely to hit front page.

Re: How to be a sane programmer

#68
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Geezuz Murphy I was almost yelling this at the screen as I read the OP's comments. There is no single template to improving as a programmer while staying both mentally and physically healthy. Define your goals and align your life to meet them; do NOT align your life to meet goals defined by others.

Thank you to both the above and above-above for bringing this up. Too often do I see these "you need to do x to be y" or "If you don't do z you're not really passionate", as you said far better than I could have, live the life you want to live. Do what you want to, don't do what you don't; but whichever choice you make, put your all into it, passions and talents will float to the top. While there is something to doin…

I think though is that programming is a tool. You don't need to have side projects to say "oh I have a problem and I think I can quickly hack together a program to address it." And then do it. That's no different really than a chef coming home making himself a sandwich.

Side projects are overrated. Chances are if you have a side project you have a reason for doing it. Maybe there is an open source project that almost meets your needs but is missing that one thing you need.

But I agree that one needs hobbies that are not programming. For example, I study history, play with the kids, do a bunch of other things. I think HeinLein was right, that specialization is for insects and often domain knowledge is as important as programming knowledge. If all you ever do is program, you aren't building the domain knowledge skills you need as well.

Re: How to be a sane programmer

#69
post #43

> Programming, like writing, painting, and music, is chiefly a creative endeavor not a technical one. Practice... will not make you a substantially better programmer. It will just make you more efficient with your tools. Show me a world-class writer who doesn't obsess about his writing with every waking moment. Show me a master painter who doesn't paint every single chance she gets. And show me a music prodigy who ha…

> Show me a world-class writer who doesn't obsess about his writing with every waking moment.

> Show me a master painter who doesn't paint every single chance she gets.

Well, there's Dante Gabriel Rosetti, who decided one day to give up painting and become a poet. While he is remembered more for his paintings than poetry, his poetry carries with it the essence and soul of his paintings as well as the imagery. He decided to paint with words. I don't think he obsessed about writing all the time. As he put it, though, "A sonnet is a moment's monument."[1]

This gets at what I think is an important point though. All of these creative endeavors require real-world knowledge. Hemmingway went out on adventures. For Tolkein, writing fiction was not his day job (teaching about medieval literature and linguistics, however, was). You can see their respective works that the live of the writer and the other obsessions beyond writing are what make the author.

Similarly with programming, yes, it is a technical endeavor and yes it is a creative one. However just like writing the great works of fiction, these don't come out of nothing. They require a context grounded in other knowledge and experience.

[1] http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~felluga/medievalism/areading.html Note that this was the introductory sonnet to "The House of Life" which chronicals Rosetti falling in love, getting married, coping with his wife's death, and finally finding solace in his religious worldview. The poem, despite its abstract nature is full of classical Greek imagery and something one could probably write volumes about. At the same time, it is an exposition on why he wrote poetry, and it provides the framework for fully understanding the hundred or so sonnets in The House of Life in that way. There are love sonnets, and sonnets which, as he puts it "in Charon's palm it pays the toll to Death" (i.e. allowing the dead and the living to begin to move on).

Re: How to be a sane programmer

#70
post #2

Heres the problem I have with this entire discussion -- and this post does address it a bit -- but programming IS a creative role and needs to be treated as such. Many organizations hire programmers as technical roles, but they are generally creatives. A lot of them are night owls, who ebb and flow between long productive stints and proverbial 'writers block'. Many of the best developers I know have a creative desire…

The majority of programming is analyzing a problem domain and applying the right design pattern. It is not creative. The longer I am at it, well over a decade now, the more this applies.

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