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SXSW: 2 dead, 23 injured.

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Re: SXSW: 2 dead, 23 injured.

#61
post #52

When I think of all the money spent in the name of improving and enriching the lives of human beings, it troubles me that we don't have a reliable solution for ending DUI. I know many companies fund research to end cancer or improve the quality of life for those with various diseases. While this research may help save or improve lives, it's motivated in part by a potential return on investment. Why can't we do someth…

You mean like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_interlock_device ? It's operational here in nl, about 100 people a week are forced to have one installed.

Sure, the device is mentioned in the link I cited. It's a remedy applied after the fact. It limits drunk driving after someone has already demonstrated poor behavior. While I earnestly want a safer world for everyone it must not be like the dystopian Gattaca.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca

Re: SXSW: 2 dead, 23 injured.

#62

Long-time Austinite here. This is indeed a sad day, and our thoughts are of course with those who were affected. At the very least, I hope that this situation will cause us to make real strides toward improving the currently deplorable state of public transportation in this city, as it's now proving to be a real danger to human life. I've lived here 12 years, and the only improvements to public transportation infrast…

As someone who has lived in Los Angeles (which has actually horrible public transit in that it doesn't exist really and is expensive), and now Austin - while our public transit here is sub-optimal, it's far from the worst in the country, and you actually can get most places with it (I lived here for 18 months with no car, so I am intimately familiar with it).

Re: SXSW: 2 dead, 23 injured.

#63
post #58
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preventing DUI is a difficult problem. A much easier problem would be to prevent speeding. Put a GPS in every car that prevents the car from driving faster than the speed limit. All the technology exists, and this would doubtlessly save lives, but somehow I doubt anybody would pass the required laws.

Agreed. My $100 Garmin GPS tells me what the speed limit is, an what speed I'm doing. I've often wondered why this wasn't just built into cars to ensure they throttle lock at the speed limit.

That would be extremely dangerous.

Re: SXSW: 2 dead, 23 injured.

#64
post #25
post #11

Good thing APD is protecting the public by keeping Uber out. The driver was definitely at fault, but we need to seriously look at how we design cities and laws. If the only way to get around in a city is to drive, people are going to drive drunk. Make it easier for people to get around without driving, and there will be less drunk driving. People will seek out jurisdictions where driving is less necessary because the…

> If the only way to get around in a city is to drive, people are going to drive drunk How about not drink if they know they have to drive later. Drink only when you have alternative means of transport, or a DD.

You don't design city policy on the assumption everyone will behave responsibly. That assumption is false, and while education can amelliorate the issue, it's improtant to know some people will make bad decisions. Having good public transportation makes DUI a lot less appealing, and as such it's an important policy in a city where it's easy/normal to get drunk.

Re: SXSW: 2 dead, 23 injured.

#65

>At a mid-morning press conference Thursday, officials said eight people were still in the hospital. Five were in critical condition, and three were listed as serious. I just... I just... WTF. Just WTF. We've had injuries and incidents at SXSW before, but nothing like this. Normally it's just busy nights for paramedics filled with minor injuries. A diabetic might get too drunk to remember to take insulin, or someone…

I don't want to take away from how awful this was, but in 2010 there were 10,228 people killed in alcohol-impaired driving crashes[1] - that's 28 each day.

So no, I don't think we'll be hearing about this case for the next year - it's actually depressingly typical. It just happens to have occurred at a large event that Hacker News has a strong connection to.

[1] http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impai...

Re: SXSW: 2 dead, 23 injured.

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sobriety checkpoints are illegal in Texas, anyway: http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/checkpoint_laws.html

Sobriety checkpoints have actually been legal in Texas for about 3 years, see http://www.cca.courts.state.tx.us/OPINIONS/HTMLOPINIONINFO.A... . The original distinction, in Texas, was between arresting someone for driving drunk and arresting them for another crime discovered during a sobriety checkpoint. The first was legal, the second was not. However, in Lujan , the Texas Criminal Court of Appeals ruled that the la…

Interesting, I had no idea! Thanks for the correction.

Re: SXSW: 2 dead, 23 injured.

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Austinite here. This is a terribly sad, sad day out here. Your comment, while partially true, is not really appreciated. That said, you can't really be "surprised" by the enormous amounts of DUIs around here (even by our elected officials). I don't mean to be insensitive, but this is not an isolated incident. This is a city that practically endorses party behavior, and has absolutely miserable public transportation o…

>> This is a city that practically endorses party behavior, and has absolutely miserable public transportation options and a sprawling suburb area I used to live in Athens, GA, and we had the same problem: nightlife drove much of the local economy, but public transportation was nearly non-existent. The number of clearly intoxicated people getting into cars was astounding to me when I first moved, having previously li…

Unfortunately, one can't build a rail line overnight. Especially when Austinites themselves voted down the larger-scale project that was on the ballot in 2000. Shot ourselves in both feet.

With this city's growth, it will be very very bad for at least 20 years to come. The Mayor himself basically said so on an AMA yesterday.

Re: SXSW: 2 dead, 23 injured.

#68
post #48

When I think of all the money spent in the name of improving and enriching the lives of human beings, it troubles me that we don't have a reliable solution for ending DUI. I know many companies fund research to end cancer or improve the quality of life for those with various diseases. While this research may help save or improve lives, it's motivated in part by a potential return on investment. Why can't we do someth…

Preventing DUI is a difficult problem. A much easier problem would be to prevent speeding. Put a GPS in every car that prevents the car from driving faster than the speed limit. All the technology exists, and this would doubtlessly save lives, but somehow I doubt anybody would pass the required laws.

I always wonder why we make cars that can go so fast. Even my car with a 1.4L engine making 100 HP can easily do 100mph, even though there's almost no place in the US where that's legal, and no place in my state where it's legal. The fastest speed limit in my state is 70mph. Why not speed-limit cars to 70mph by default, with an option to disable this limiter in a controlled fashion if the person wants to go out on a racetrack where these speeds are legal?

There are obviously arguments in favor of personal liberty that would make some people uncomfortable with this, but they shouldn't be. No one should be. If the speed limit on the road is 70mph, there is no reason for your car to be doing more than 70mph on the road, period. I don't care that you want to pass a vehicle that is only doing 69mph, you'll either lower your speed or pass them at 1mph (which, at least in my state, is also illegal. To pass someone, they must be doing at least 5mph under the speed limit, and you can't break the speed limit in order to pass someone).

Now, it wouldn't help in this situation, but it's something that's always bothered me. As we make better and better performing entry-level cars, we can't change the laws of physics. 90mph isn't unheard of as a common cruising speed on a road where the minimum speed limit is 45mph. That's just stupid and dangerous.

Re: SXSW: 2 dead, 23 injured.

#69

When I think of all the money spent in the name of improving and enriching the lives of human beings, it troubles me that we don't have a reliable solution for ending DUI. I know many companies fund research to end cancer or improve the quality of life for those with various diseases. While this research may help save or improve lives, it's motivated in part by a potential return on investment. Why can't we do someth…

DUI is a problem, and any human loss is painful, especially when avoidable. All that said, I feel like DUI is an overblown problem, in a way. 8 people dead per 1 million estimates incidents of DUI with a max. toll of 10k lives is not insignificant, and human loss is always bad. However, I disagree with your thesis. Curing cancer, raising the standard of living for the poor, and the death toll to obesity are all much more impactful things on society, though DUI is more 'senseless' and painful for victims.

I think limiting the need to drive is the only feasible option.

* You won't stop people from drinking in places where they can't sleep. Drinking at a bar costs 5-6x as much as drinking at someone's home, and yet people are constantly going out to be in a public drinking environment.

* Hopefully, we won't see mandated technology on vehicles requiring alcohol inspections for driving. Privacy, constitutional and technological issues all exist there. Yes, I know the devices exist, but they're clumsy, frustrating, and in the US are only used for people convicted of a 1st time DUI.

Solution: Incentivize people to walk or taxi home, or have a designated driver.

* By far the biggest immediate change that could be made: Make taxi services as cheap as possible. Stop limiting competition like Uber and the pedbikes in Austin from competition; while there are public safety concerns regarding drivers, I think the economic and safety benefits outweigh the risks. Cheap, responsive drivers = less drunk driving, period. ESPECIALLY in places like Texas, or most of the US, where public transit isn't ubiquitous.

* Allow mixed development and stop making suburban islands. If the hip bars are a three block walk from the houses and apartment complexes, fewer people will need to drive. Or, if you're making a suburban neighborhood, build the bar/drug store/grocer right into the town!

* The following thing is a dangerous and controversial thing to say, because it might imply that DUI is "okay": If you're going to drive after drinking, be honest with yourself. Don't say "I'm totally fine to drive". When you're exhausted on a trip, you don't just say you're fine and keep driving. You either pull over and sleep (get a cab) or you recognize your state and roll down the windows, turn on the radio, splash some water on your face, get a Red Bull, etc. If you are inebriated, say "I am drunk, don't speed, check my mirrors, watch out at all the intersections." That is a big cause of accidents, I'd be willing to bet. Whenever you see government propaganda about the dangers of DUI, it's the couple stumbling to the car, kissing each other, and not paying attention to driving. It's not good to drive when your body is impaired in ANY way, but the big problem is not recognizing your impaired state and focusing on the road.

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Postscript: DUI checkpoints are shit, and I don't care what the Supreme Court says. It's an invitation for the police to create probable cause and search your entire self and vehicle, your insurance, and if you piss them off, your cell phone. Even if you're sober, avoid them/fight them whenever possible.

Re: SXSW: 2 dead, 23 injured.

#70

Long-time Austinite here. This is indeed a sad day, and our thoughts are of course with those who were affected. At the very least, I hope that this situation will cause us to make real strides toward improving the currently deplorable state of public transportation in this city, as it's now proving to be a real danger to human life. I've lived here 12 years, and the only improvements to public transportation infrast…

As someone who has lived in Los Angeles (which has actually horrible public transit in that it doesn't exist really and is expensive), and now Austin - while our public transit here is sub-optimal, it's far from the worst in the country, and you actually can get most places with it (I lived here for 18 months with no car, so I am intimately familiar with it).

True, but "far from worst in the country" and "capable of dealing with the city's growth" are two different things. I'm originally from Arlington, Texas, which actually held the distinction until very recently of being the largest city in North America with absolutely no form of public transport whatsoever. I've seen both ends of the spectrum, and Austin still falls far short of where we need to be.

There's also the problem of finding a ride home after the bars close, which is far less doable given our current system. We also need to rapidly expand the light rail system, but efforts to do so seem to be floundering at City Hall.

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