Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Silicon Valley’s Youth Problem

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 237 posts

Re: Silicon Valley’s Youth Problem

#61

Post by michaelochurch »

3pt14159 wrote: post #57
michaelochurch wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the forest for the trees. Yes, there are systemic problems with governments contracting out software. The substance/cool chasm is real (find my other post in this thread) and vicious.

Maybe we're just interested in solving the problems we have. We're mostly young and getting sex or sharing photos is something that is socially rewarding and fun. We're not dying of cancer yet, that's you guys. You guys are the ones running those companies and generally we don't like how you guys run companies. We want very flexible hours, self direction, relaxing lighting, productive work time and a near absence of…

We're not dying of cancer yet, that's you guys.

I'm 30. I'm one of the young guys.

I also realize that (a) my odds of winning the VC-funded lottery are low and (b) all of us are going to be old one day.

No age is too young to die of cancer. One of my friends died last year at 31.

You guys are the ones running those companies and generally we don't like how you guys run companies.

I don't like how stodgy, checked-out, appearance-obsessed execs run companies. I also don't like how VC-funded egotistical frat boys run companies. It has nothing to do with age. Most people of any age are not equipped to run companies.

We want very flexible hours, self direction, relaxing lighting, productive work time and a near absence of meetings.

I agree 100% and that won't change when I'm 50. I'll probably be even grumpier about the corporate nonsense (if God decides to be a dick and I'm still working corporate jobs by then).

The people I know that are in their twenties and trying to fix cancer are being met with the horrible baby boomer mentality about everything.

Sure. I don't think you're wrong, and your observations are valid. Is it generational? I'm not sure. I don't like the Gen X, VC chickenhawk mentality or the Millennial-generation "move fast and never fix things" mindset either. People who gain power become short-sighted, flippant, emotionally insensitive and, over the long term, creatively and intellectually weak. This is true regardless of age.

I rail on "the Boomers" all the time because the political impact of that generation has been terrible, and their economic mismanagement has fucked us up big time, but I don't actually think it's a problem with the individuals.

Re: Silicon Valley’s Youth Problem

#62

Post by dalke »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #42
dalke wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, non-stockholder private citizens do get involved in some of the decisions of private companies. Anti-pollution and workplace safety laws are just two of many such examples. You may object that those are "laws", and different from the views of private citizens in the local neighborhood. But even on that smaller scale, if a company wants to expand into a new building, it will need a building permit, which require…

But, busses, really? They are evil now? With all the good they do, I think maybe they should be a protected class or something.

I didn't use the word "evil" though certainly some do. I commented on why one claimed benefit - reducing the number of cars on the street and making more effective use of a commute time - can be reasonably seen as "frivolous" to some.

Everything has good and bad in it. Even buses. There's always a tension. Sometimes there are mechanisms, like public input to planning decisions, which help reduce the tension. Sometimes there aren't. Tension rarely just disappears on its own.

Re: Silicon Valley’s Youth Problem

#63

Post by michaelochurch »

oskarth wrote: post #59
michaelochurch wrote: post #52

This isn't a "youth problem". 20-year-olds and 50-year-olds aren't natural enemies, and most people don't think that way. Blaming this on one side is ridiculous. When 50-year-old chickenhawk VCs only want to fund 25-year-olds, that's not the fault of one generation or the other. (Can you blame it on the young for taking the opportunity? No. Can you blame it on the old when it's only a few making those decisions that…

This way of thinking about it is interesting. For many people, me included, entrepreneurship is first and foremost a existential choice. Do you have some examples of what this middle path might look like? For the entrepreneurial-minded, is it different from what is commonly viewed as "lifestyle business" or bootstrapped revenue-first side-project (that might later turn into a solid small-scale business)?

Mid-risk/mid-growth businesses. Designed to grow at 15-40% per year and hire selectively (see: Valve). Can have a desirable culture (e.g. open allocation) that wouldn't survive 75%/year personnel growth. Too risky for bank loans (personal liability) but not the billions-or-bollocks long-shot gambits that are career-making for VCs. But still potentially very profitable if VCs took a portfolio mentality rather than a careerist "I want the next Facebook because of what it'll do for my reputation" approach.

Re: Silicon Valley’s Youth Problem

#64

Post by metaphorm »

dalke wrote: post #15
raldi wrote: post #3

> The backlash in recent months against the self-involvement and frivolity of the new guard has actually been a long time coming. Instagram photos of opulent tech holiday parties have been lambasted, Google buses blockaded In what universe is a carpooling system that gets dozens of cars off the road and allows each passenger to reclaim ten working hours a week classified as frivolous?

Have you not been following any of the discussion about this topic? Here are three frequently voiced objections: 1) If the city decided to put a new bus route outside of your house, with a bus every 10 minutes for the morning and evening rush hours, then you would expect there to be public meetings where people can voice concerns about the routing, increase in large traffic, noise, and so on. Why should private compa…

regarding your first point:

Democratic decision making is useful for big picture stuff (like choosing representatives for government). Its actually dysfunctionally terrible for small scale stuff. You can't put literally everything to a vote. If you do, then nothing happens.

Re: Silicon Valley’s Youth Problem

#65

Post by dalke »

SteveGerencser wrote: post #41
flgb wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The private company is making use of community owned resources so the community should have a say

Which the private company paid a LOT more than the average person to create. Not sure why so many people seem to think that companies pay nothing fro infrastructure.

How much did Google pay for the SF street infrastructure? I thought they didn't pay anything until this January, and even then it's $1 per each use of a bus stop.

Also, why the comparison of an "average person" to a private company? Surely the private citizens of San Francisco, as a whole, have invested far more in the city infrastructure than Google has.

Re: Silicon Valley’s Youth Problem

#66

Post by [deleted] »

jhpriestley wrote: post #54
dalke wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought I addressed your "frivolous" criterion directly. 1) It may be "frivolous" if the routing is only made based on the needs of the commuters, and has no input from the people who live on those routes. In an extreme case, if a bus goes down a narrow street in order to save one able-bodied person one block of walking, then that part is definitely frivolous even with the overall savings. Without that local input,…

None of these are a correct usage of frivolous. You are describing imperious, self-defeating, and short-sighted behaviors respectively, none of which are really the same.

[deleted]

Re: Silicon Valley’s Youth Problem

#67

Post by 3pt14159 »

michaelochurch wrote: post #61
3pt14159 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we're just interested in solving the problems we have. We're mostly young and getting sex or sharing photos is something that is socially rewarding and fun. We're not dying of cancer yet, that's you guys. You guys are the ones running those companies and generally we don't like how you guys run companies. We want very flexible hours, self direction, relaxing lighting, productive work time and a near absence of…

We're not dying of cancer yet, that's you guys. I'm 30. I'm one of the young guys. I also realize that (a) my odds of winning the VC-funded lottery are low and (b) all of us are going to be old one day. No age is too young to die of cancer. One of my friends died last year at 31. You guys are the ones running those companies and generally we don't like how you guys run companies. I don't like how stodgy, checked-out,…

Sorry about that Michael, I had you confused with someone else on HN. Apologies.

Look, if the money were there and the environment was there we'd be there. It really is that simple.

I think the odds of winning the startup lottery are actually pretty high, at least for all reasonable definitions of "winning". Although that might be survivorship bias speaking on my end.

If more people were like Elon Musk we'd be working on these harder problems. I totally agree with you about your observations about people that gain power, at least in aggregate.

Re: Silicon Valley’s Youth Problem

#68

Post by Vervious »

powera wrote: post #50

I stopped reading this when I got to "Why do these smart, quantitatively trained engineers, who could help cure cancer or fix healthcare.gov, want to work for a sexting app?" - there was the cover article in Time Magazine not less than 2 weeks ago about these very engineers fixing healthcare.gov, and describing why they don't do it permanently (government procurement is awful and almost always unrelated to actual ski…

> The whole article reads like a narrative that is grabbing random anecdotes to support a point, even when the facts say otherwise.

I'm curious what facts you're talking about. The very problems you point out about healthcare.gov support part of the author's argument - that today's tech environment rewards the creation of a sexting app over more groundbreaking work, and therefore youth do the former.

From my perspective, at least, few of Silicon Valley's startups will have a lasting dent in the human world. Funding for spaceship technology is limited, more people are working on note-taking apps than cleaning the air, and the hype is all on Snapchat (which does have a huge valuation).

The real issue is how we change it; change inevitably comes from youth. And if today's youth come out of college excited about sexting apps, I have little trust in a better future. That being said, I'm not in a position to say much, being a college student myself.

Re: Silicon Valley’s Youth Problem

#69

Post by raldi »

dalke wrote: post #65
SteveGerencser wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which the private company paid a LOT more than the average person to create. Not sure why so many people seem to think that companies pay nothing fro infrastructure.

How much did Google pay for the SF street infrastructure? I thought they didn't pay anything until this January, and even then it's $1 per each use of a bus stop. Also, why the comparison of an "average person" to a private company? Surely the private citizens of San Francisco, as a whole, have invested far more in the city infrastructure than Google has.

Street infrastructure is paid for by taxes, including payroll taxes, corporate income taxes, and gas taxes, all of which Google pays.

Re: Silicon Valley’s Youth Problem

#70

Post by thewarrior »

powera wrote: post #50

I stopped reading this when I got to "Why do these smart, quantitatively trained engineers, who could help cure cancer or fix healthcare.gov, want to work for a sexting app?" - there was the cover article in Time Magazine not less than 2 weeks ago about these very engineers fixing healthcare.gov, and describing why they don't do it permanently (government procurement is awful and almost always unrelated to actual ski…

I found the article to be a nice summary of the current Silicon Valley zeitgeist. Someone who has never really followed developments in technology can get a nice overview by reading this article.
Post reply on HN