Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 71 posts

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#61

Post by onmydesk »

ses wrote: post #51
onmydesk wrote: post #37

This is what is wrong with the UK. Bubble property prices all over the country. And relative to incomes it is ALL OVER the country. Everyone over 40 has a buy to let portfolio and those under 40 are stuck in rented property with few rights. Did you know in the uk if you rent you can be evicted for no reason at all? And if you will not or can not pay bubble prices for property you have to rent, live in poorly maintain…

I fully agree with most of what you're saying, but I'm not sure where the degree of capitalism involved comes in. I think it has much more to do with the lack of creativity in government that you mention. Ultimately it does feel like younger generations are the fuel for the engines that drive the UK economy.

It is perhaps more accurate to say the prevention of allowing a free market to operate in housing is the problem. Government meddling. What the UK desperately needs is for these artificial props to be removed from the housing market and for the market to operate. This will lead to a correction which at this point actually benefits more people than it harms.

Selling piles of bricks to one another for ever increasing prices is plainly unsustainable and yet it has become the basis for the UK economy.

We need that money to go into entrepreneurial activity the likes of which a startup hub is well placed to encourage.

This story of property investment trumping entrepreneurial activity is a microcosm of the story of the UK economy as a whole since the housing bubble started 10+ years ago.

The UK desperately needs a free market oriented government. Traditionally the conservatives were that party but it appears no longer. They have just continued to damage the UK as the party before them.

It is appalling.

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#62

Post by gaius »

onmydesk wrote: post #60
gaius wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you know in the uk if you rent you can be evicted for no reason at all? That is simply not true. Evicting anyone is a long, drawn-out process, even if they stop paying the rent!

After the Assured Shorthold Tenancy period you can be given 2 months notice at any time. Regardless of what kind of tenant you have been, whether you paid your rent on time, etc etc etc. I know it has happened to me and many others I have spoken to. What sort of an environment is that in which to lead a settled life? Many many priced out tenants have had to move their kids from school to school as incompetent landlor…

That is not the same thing as "being evicted".

The relationship between you and the landlord is the same as any buyer and seller of goods. If say Cadbury's decided to stop making your favourite chocolate bar, would you feel your rights had been trampled? Or if a shop decided to stop carrying some product you loved. Or if your favourite TV show got cancelled.

Or perhaps if the macro environment changes, should the landlord subsidize you when the bank is charging him more? Will the plumber give him a discount because he is a good guy? Will the supplier also give the plumber that discount because he's doing some work for a good guy who charges his tenants less than the going rate?

And what if the landlord's personal circumstances change and he or she desperately needs the money? Say they are no longer able to work?

I know that it is disruptive to move house, but in all likelihood the landlord isn't a monster, just someone who's trying to save for their retirement and has been scared out of pension funds by the smash and grab raid launched in 1997 (which I'll note the current lot haven't reversed).

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#63

Post by onmydesk »

gaius wrote: post #62
onmydesk wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the Assured Shorthold Tenancy period you can be given 2 months notice at any time. Regardless of what kind of tenant you have been, whether you paid your rent on time, etc etc etc. I know it has happened to me and many others I have spoken to. What sort of an environment is that in which to lead a settled life? Many many priced out tenants have had to move their kids from school to school as incompetent landlor…

That is not the same thing as "being evicted". The relationship between you and the landlord is the same as any buyer and seller of goods. If say Cadbury's decided to stop making your favourite chocolate bar, would you feel your rights had been trampled? Or if a shop decided to stop carrying some product you loved. Or if your favourite TV show got cancelled. Or perhaps if the macro environment changes, should the lan…

Forced to leave your home at someone else's request is the same as being evicted.

Housing is not optional so the relationship is not the same as anything else.

There is a choice. Buy what you cannot afford and pray the cost of borrowing doesn't increase or live at the mercy of an amateur landlord. Some choice.

A correction is sorely needed so that choice instead becomes rent or buy. Not as it currently is, rent or commit financial suicide.

While buying is not an option for the financially responsible renting should be more like it is on the continent. Rent increases there can only be as high as inflation and the tenant is treated like a paying customer.

The situation is shocking here, that is undeniable.

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#64

Post by gaius »

onmydesk wrote: post #63
gaius wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not the same thing as "being evicted". The relationship between you and the landlord is the same as any buyer and seller of goods. If say Cadbury's decided to stop making your favourite chocolate bar, would you feel your rights had been trampled? Or if a shop decided to stop carrying some product you loved. Or if your favourite TV show got cancelled. Or perhaps if the macro environment changes, should the lan…

Forced to leave your home at someone else's request is the same as being evicted. Housing is not optional so the relationship is not the same as anything else. There is a choice. Buy what you cannot afford and pray the cost of borrowing doesn't increase or live at the mercy of an amateur landlord. Some choice. A correction is sorely needed so that choice instead becomes rent or buy. Not as it currently is, rent or co…

Now you are just making words up. But I will continue my analogy. Food is not optional, but you have no "right" to force the supermarket to stock what you want regardless of its own decisions.

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#65

Post by onmydesk »

gaius wrote: post #64
onmydesk wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forced to leave your home at someone else's request is the same as being evicted. Housing is not optional so the relationship is not the same as anything else. There is a choice. Buy what you cannot afford and pray the cost of borrowing doesn't increase or live at the mercy of an amateur landlord. Some choice. A correction is sorely needed so that choice instead becomes rent or buy. Not as it currently is, rent or co…

Now you are just making words up. But I will continue my analogy. Food is not optional, but you have no "right" to force the supermarket to stock what you want regardless of its own decisions.

Eviction

noun 1. the action of expelling someone from a property; expulsion. "the forced eviction of residents" synonyms: expulsion, ejection, ousting, throwing out, drumming out, driving out, banishing, banishment, removal, dislodgement, displacement, clearance;

--------

You're plainly part of the over 40 cohort with buy to let property otherwise you wouldn't be so keen to bend rational thought in knots in order to make yourself feel better about the damage you cause to decent people.

If anyone else is reading this, here we see an example of how the damage continues to be done. There are many with a vested interest in the harmful status quo and so they pretend everything is fine for as long as they benefit.

I note you make no mention of societies in the rest of europe where renting is the norm and where work has been done to help remove exploitation from the system. Presumably you aren't in favour of that either so long as you're alright jack.

You are quite a sick individual and you will waste no more of my time. Your tenants have my sympathy.

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#66

Post by gaius »

onmydesk wrote: post #65
gaius wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you are just making words up. But I will continue my analogy. Food is not optional, but you have no "right" to force the supermarket to stock what you want regardless of its own decisions.

Eviction noun 1. the action of expelling someone from a property; expulsion. "the forced eviction of residents" synonyms: expulsion, ejection, ousting, throwing out, drumming out, driving out, banishing, banishment, removal, dislodgement, displacement, clearance; -------- You're plainly part of the over 40 cohort with buy to let property otherwise you wouldn't be so keen to bend rational thought in knots in order to…

You're plainly part of the over 40 cohort with buy to let property

Nope, neither. Just, umm, sane. I suppose you blame all this on Thatcher too...

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#67

Post by mherdeg »

camillomiller wrote: post #39
mysterywhiteboy wrote: post #2

Article was removed - but google is all-seeing: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.the...

Well, I guess some editor's being grilled for letting this paragraph pass through. >Maybe not one as hot as Silicon Valley, but a least something to add much-needed diversity to the capital's industrial base – which presently consists largely of companies that launder war criminals' money, and companies that exchange this laundered money for empty luxury flats. While one can agree, Doctorow's sarcasm isn't clear and…

That sentence is still present in today's published version of this article, http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2014/mar/10/slow-death-of-... .

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#68

Post by justincormack »

mpclark wrote: post #45
onmydesk wrote: post #37

This is what is wrong with the UK. Bubble property prices all over the country. And relative to incomes it is ALL OVER the country. Everyone over 40 has a buy to let portfolio and those under 40 are stuck in rented property with few rights. Did you know in the uk if you rent you can be evicted for no reason at all? And if you will not or can not pay bubble prices for property you have to rent, live in poorly maintain…

> Everyone over 40 has a buy to let portfolio and those under 40 are stuck in rented property with few rights. Never seen it put so pithily, and yes, that's exactly how it feels.

er, some of us over 40s are renting too. If you did a startup rather than getting a mortgage when younger and so didn't buy a house you can't now.

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#69

Post by camillomiller »

mherdeg wrote: post #67
camillomiller wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I guess some editor's being grilled for letting this paragraph pass through. >Maybe not one as hot as Silicon Valley, but a least something to add much-needed diversity to the capital's industrial base – which presently consists largely of companies that launder war criminals' money, and companies that exchange this laundered money for empty luxury flats. While one can agree, Doctorow's sarcasm isn't clear and…

That sentence is still present in today's published version of this article, http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2014/mar/10/slow-death-of-... .

That's a good thing. Still wondering why it was pulled, then

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#70

Post by ses »

onmydesk wrote: post #61
ses wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully agree with most of what you're saying, but I'm not sure where the degree of capitalism involved comes in. I think it has much more to do with the lack of creativity in government that you mention. Ultimately it does feel like younger generations are the fuel for the engines that drive the UK economy.

It is perhaps more accurate to say the prevention of allowing a free market to operate in housing is the problem. Government meddling. What the UK desperately needs is for these artificial props to be removed from the housing market and for the market to operate. This will lead to a correction which at this point actually benefits more people than it harms. Selling piles of bricks to one another for ever increasing p…

I think one of the first things we need to look at is the poor quality of a lot of new housing developments and the number of unoccupied / 'brown-field' that could be renovated and provide much more affordable housing than the over inflated prices of new properties. I still fail to see why the ideology of a more unrestricted free market economy would be of any benefit to the property market. In fact I think fewer restrictions would worsen the situation with many buying new houses that could become effectively worthless where for example they have been built in high flood risk areas.

I agree the economy should be less reliant on the housing bubble, but I'm not convinced that technology / start-ups are the only way to achieve this. The 'start-up' hubs you mention are just as likely to become another black-hole which the government throws money at with no real strategy in place.

Post reply on HN