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Trader Joe's Shrugged

vvdailypress.com

61–70 of 74 posts

Re: Trader Joe's Shrugged

#61
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true and what's more, TJ's is not even close to a one-stop grocery store. They have a few general interest items and a bunch of foods specific only/mostly to their store. Only a nutritionally deficient person could shop solely at TJ, for everyone else I know it's supplemental shopping. There is a lower limit to your wealth before you get to the point where you're in the market for supplemental groceries. *source…

> Only a nutritionally deficient person could shop solely at TJ. I shop almost exclusively at Trader Joe's* and am not (to my knowledge at least) nutritionally deficient. I get fruits, vegetables, dairy, meats, eggs, bread/cereal, and the odd snack. What am I missing?

In my experience, while it's true that technically they have items for every section of the food pyramid, you're often limited to a very small selection within many of those categories. Maybe your store is better stocked than mine was, but I could only eat there if I had the same few meals repeatedly.

I'll admit to a small bit of hyperbole in calling that nutritional deficiency, I should have better called that a distinct lack of variety.

Re: Trader Joe's Shrugged

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what happens in Dallas all the time. The city gives tax benefits to the property owners and the developers so that they will build these big shiny new developments in areas that are "oppressed". The result is that none of the money ends up in the locals pocketbooks, people who had a home of some sort are forced to pick up and move to somewhere else in the city and the rich get richer. The author of th…

But it isn't really isn't that black and white is it? A rich family could get a break on this property to build a Trader Joes there, but how long has the property been vacant? Maybe no one else wants to build there and this "subsidy" is better for the community due to the employment a Trader Joes and other businesses could provide. Right now an empty parking lot isn't helping the community much; this should also be t…

The land is not actually a parking lot but is grassy and open and is effectively a park right now. It actually adds quite a bit of value to the neighborhood as it is IMO. Also, the PDC did not offer it to anyone else at that price, just Trader Joes.

Re: Trader Joe's Shrugged

#63
post #49
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But it's also entirely possible that stores do this sort of thing all the time with the blessing of city councils and what it does is displace the existing population. Dallas (where I live near) is notorious for giving developers tax breaks to tear down lower class apartments if they agree to build something of much higher tax value. I doubt Dallas is odd man out. I'd guess that's exactly the worry here. Installing…

With that logic, we should never try to make poor places better because it would attract wealthier people. No?

So causing housing to become less affordable and eventually driving the community out is considered "making it better" Better for whom?

Re: Trader Joe's Shrugged

#64
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That someone can innocently and unironically describe Trader Joe's as being "known for low prices" is really the crux of the problem here. Perhaps you're not familiar with minimum wage?

Not sure what you are getting at. Trader's pays very well: "...full-time crew members can start in the $40,000 to $60,000 a year range." http://womensenews.org/story/labor/130722/cashier-the-deal-o...

Uneducated, inexperienced, poor people cannot compete for a job that pays that well. It would be trivial to staff the store with much higher quality candidates from farther away. Unless this specific TJ makes an explicit commitment to hire extremely local folks, then there will not be any working there.

Re: Trader Joe's Shrugged

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would bring new jobs but to who? It would bring quality food but for whom? It would increase tax revenues but for who? Fair questions, I'll grant you that. My question to you: is doing nothing (an empty lot) better than ambiguity about the people who will finally benefit from this economic development? If TJ moved in and somehow ended up providing only a net of 1% benefit to the local community, would that be wo…

It's hard to say. If a new development means 80% of the local population have to move somewhere farther away from jobs, then yes, an empty lot would be better. You assume the empty lot is a zero but it's just somewhere on the scale. It is easy to imagine a scenario where a development provides negative impact to the poor in that community. An empty lot isn't the floor. It's just a place to measure from.

"Further away from jobs.." You just complained that they wouldn't get jobs at trader joes, yet apparently they already have jobs. As far as "affordable housing." I'm tired of that excuse for letting neighborhoods turn into poverty factories. As far as them having no place to go, many of the working poor in those neighborhoods own their homes or they have a mortgage on their home which, due to the 2008 housing crash is likely worth less than they owe and due to likely bad credit is probably at an interest rate that's killing them. I'm studying a neighborhood in San Antonio called Denver Heights which is a really poor east-side neighborhood -- 40% of those homes have been foreclosed on. So that's telling me that those homes were owned by poor people and not some evil rich investors. If Trader Joe's had been built in that neighborhood, perhaps many of those families would still have a home because the equity increase would result in them being able to favorably refinance rather than losing the home to the bank. Now when you drive through there, it's almost a rotting ghost town.

This could provide a huge benefit to those people. But I guess we can just ignore the positive benefit to those people. Instead let's kill the development in the interest of "saving" the bottom 1% at the expense of other people in the neighborhood, many of whom are the working poor. This Trader Joe's deal could have make them fairly rich. If they own a $40K home that's now worth $150K, they just made $110K. They could refinance their home, cash out the equity and use that money to start a business, pay debt or buy more property. With one deal, they wouldn't be poor anymore. These "community groups" rather than trying to keep people victims ought to be out there teaching about real estate, investing and starting businesses, but alas, they only teach about how oppressed they are.

You're suggesting that if someone is poor in a neighborhood, we should ensure that everyone else gets fucked just to look after them? You are aware of something called Section 8, I presume? Do you know anything about how it works? Apparently not. If we followed your logic, then there would be no such thing as neighborhood revitalization, because a revitalized neighborhood necessarily results in higher property values. Interestingly, neighborhood revitalization has a positive effect on schools, especially in reducing de facto segregation. But of course, we can't have the schools improving because then the poor kids wouldn't have any more excuses and the poverty pimp business would dry up within a generation.

An empty lot benefits nobody.

Re: Trader Joe's Shrugged

#66
post #29
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the food which, on the whole, just isn't healthy.

> Except the food which, on the whole, just isn't healthy. Care to elaborate? Assuming the Walmart has their standard grocery section they will sell fresh fruits/vegetables, meat, dairy, eggs, grains and the like. It may not be the highest quality but it won't kill you.

Agreed. The assortments available at all of my local Walmarts are on par with the local big box grocery stores. This includes produce, bakery, deli, and prepared items.

Re: Trader Joe's Shrugged

#67

The article fails to mention the incredible subsidy Trader Joe's was given to build at this location: they would pay only $500k for a $2.9 million lot.

That lot is only worth 2.9 million if someone where willing to pay $2.9 million. I bet the value of that lot just dropped dramatically after this situation. Who would buy that lot knowing that you really can't employ it for it's highest and best use? No one wants to pay $2.9 million for a lot just to build some nail salons, a barber and a dollar store.

Re: Trader Joe's Shrugged

#69
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who lived very close to a Walmart-centered ecosystem for several years, including working there, I'll also add that while it isn't Gucci, there's nothing really wrong with the stuff Walmart sells, from a poor person's practical point of view. It's just regular, everyday useful stuff.

I think a large past of the anger against Walmart is not about their products; it's about their poor economic practices - underpaying people, being effectively subsidized as their workers are on food stamps, and the deleterious effect they have on local neighborhood stores.

underpaying people, being effectively subsidized as their workers are on food stamps

Bill applies for a job at Costco, but Costco only hires a fraction of the number of workers that other retailers do per square foot or dollar of revenue, so they turn him down. In the future, Costco will be paying Bill $0/month. As he continues to hunt for a job, Bill goes on food stamps.

A month later, Bill later applies for a job at Walmart, where he's hired making just above minimum wage at $8/hour. Since he's only earning $8/hour and only working ~30 hours/week to start, Walmart will be paying Bill about $900/month. Bill will continue to receive some food stamps, but less than he was receiving in the month that Costco turned him down.

Explain to me why Walmart is being "subsidized" here.

Re: Trader Joe's Shrugged

#70

I got the sense while reading that blog post there had to be more to the story than what was presented there. I spent some time reading, and found out that: 1. The crux of the issue for PAALF was that increasing neighborhood desirability (and therefore rent) without ensuring either living wage guarantees or affordable housing would result in the displacement of current neighborhood residents. 2. The land was being so…

> The property in question was assessed at $2.9 M

Is it worth $2.9 million? Apparently Trader Joe's thinks it's worth less than $500,000 since they didn't buy it.

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