Live data from Hacker News

An Open Letter To Recruiters

paddy.io

61–68 of 68 posts

Re: An Open Letter To Recruiters

#61

Full disclosure: I'm not a recruiter or a coder. I'm a publicist. Instead of pitching Very Important Programmers all day, I pitch Very Important Editors. But, unsurprisingly, the things that make a great story pitch are the same things that make a great recruiting pitch. You're completely right - research, knowing your audience and his/her skills, history, and interests, are more important than anything else. Candidn…

Disclosure: I am not a Very Important Programmer.

Second Disclosure: I am not on top.

Were either of these different, I might feel differently than I do.

Some people do prefer email to the phone. I have no problem with a recruiter offering the option to have a phone call. I have problems with recruiters requiring the phone call before I can even talk to someone who will make a decision. Hell, the last recruiter blatantly told me they would not tell me the name of the company they were hiring for until I was on the phone with them. Perhaps it's my arrogance, but that doesn't to be a matter of "some people like the phone better".

You are right, not every recruiter needs to read my blog or Twitter enough to realise that I have a boyfriend. That is a terrible example. I'll iterate on it with an updated draft that better gets across the point--perhaps a suggesting I work in an enterprise environment would be a better example, as I'm decidedly unsuited to that environment, and that's obvious if you know anything about me at all.

I believe a bare minimum of a job description--the company they're hiring for, something about the culture or problem they're solving, the stack they use, maybe why they think you'd be a good candidate--is probably a good bet. I get too many recruiter emails like my sample that don't tell me, quite literally, anything about the company. At all. No name. No website. No size. Nothing that would allow me to determine if this is an opportunity I should pursue or not.

I believe I pointed out that recruiters are busy and that I am busy. I am well aware I'm not the only busy person out there. :) If you think this is disrespectful, I'd certainly love to find ways to fix this.

I think you may be unfamiliar with the level of interaction recruiters provide. The publicists sending the mass pitches you describe are the bad recruiter pitches I am talking about. It is not a matter of me having very specific guidelines for how I am spoken to before I'll consider a job; it's a matter of an industry whose norm is to type in search terms, then hit all the results with a form letter.

This letter is in case one of those who are trying to do a good job are seeing everyone else use the form letter and assuming that is how it's done. Or who simply don't know how to put themselves into an engineer's shoes to effectively communicate a pitch.

I resent your accusation that I believe recruiters are somehow beneath me. I actually, as I mentioned, believe recruiters have a really cool job. I don't have the aptitude for it, but I do not believe that making lights flash in a pleasing pattern is somehow a worthier job than connecting people to jobs that fulfill them. And yes, there are recruiters I love. They are the ones I send referrals to when a friend asks who is hiring. They are the ones I seek out. Which, for a recruiter, is a powerful card to hold in a limited market. I'm trying to give as many recruiters that card as I can.

I deal with recruiters all the time. I got my current job through a recruiter. He was fantastic. I have nothing against recruiters, or I would just set up a spam filter and call it a day.

I wrote this because I ask for feedback when I'm in the hiring process, so it struck me that recruiters might also like feedback. It seems to me that this is the opposite of what you accuse me of; if I didn't care about the recruiter, considered them lesser, or didn't think they cared about their job, why would I care if they got the feedback they needed to improve? I'd ignore them and move on. It's certainly less effort.

And it results in fewer people assuming I think my ass is the gravitational pull of the universe without bothering to find out anything about me.

Re: An Open Letter To Recruiters

#62
post #59

I'm always perplexed at how annoyed the dev community gets at recruiters. Sure, it's weird when they don't put forth an effort, but come on, you're getting unsolicited job offers multiple times a week! We're EXTREMELY lucky that our industry is flourishing right now. So many people have been unemployed for months (years) and they can't so much as get a phone-call. Take the recruitment as flattery. If you're not inter…

I agree. I remember the job market of 07-09, and appreciate being contacted by recruiters. In fact, I typically respond to most them in order to politely decline. I'm too young to remember the post-dot-com years, but those weren't a walk in the park either (to put it very mildly).

In 2004, craigslist listed only about ten tech jobs per day for the Bay Area.

Also, LinkedIn wasn't all that popular, there was no Hacker News, there was no Twitter, Facebook, etc., meetup didn't have organizers (so often it was just a collection of people showing up at a restaurant and chatting about some subject.)

Re: An Open Letter To Recruiters

#63
post #53
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced it's that broken, though - at least from the recruiter's perspective. I have no doubt they pick up many candidates - those of us that are more "discerning" as just the collateral damage.

I'm thinking that recruiter's being able to pick up large amounts of candidates doesn't necessarily equal success. Success would be defined as companies getting the right fit for their job openings. Simply filling those job openings every time does not mean the right fit is found every time.

Simply filling those job openings every time does not mean the right fit is found every time.

Again, though, success from whose perspective? If the recruiter gets their commission, it is a success for them.

Re: An Open Letter To Recruiters

#64
post #63
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm thinking that recruiter's being able to pick up large amounts of candidates doesn't necessarily equal success. Success would be defined as companies getting the right fit for their job openings. Simply filling those job openings every time does not mean the right fit is found every time.

Simply filling those job openings every time does not mean the right fit is found every time. Again, though, success from whose perspective? If the recruiter gets their commission, it is a success for them.

Agreed. The model is broken.

Maybe success shouldn't be considered success unless the fit is right.

Re: An Open Letter To Recruiters

#65

I'm always perplexed at how annoyed the dev community gets at recruiters. Sure, it's weird when they don't put forth an effort, but come on, you're getting unsolicited job offers multiple times a week! We're EXTREMELY lucky that our industry is flourishing right now. So many people have been unemployed for months (years) and they can't so much as get a phone-call. Take the recruitment as flattery. If you're not inter…

These are not "job offers". And getting contacted doesn't guarantee an interview either. (But it is still good to treat people considering you as a job prospect as flattery.)

> getting contacted doesn't guarantee an interview either

I think this is the part that bothers me most. If a headhunter contacts me, why am I not given the inside-track for the interview?

Re: An Open Letter To Recruiters

#66
"Talking to you on the phone is, 100% of the time, an absolutely useless exercise for me."

Couldn't agree more. I don't understand the desire of recruiters to talk in person. This must be something that they are required to do for a number of hours per day, I assume. I appreciate recruiters who can appreciate my time and not waste it.

Re: An Open Letter To Recruiters

#68

So the only "recruiters" I ever get contacting me are for body-shop type firms (TekSystems, Robert Half). I've talked to them and I tell them that I'm comfortable where I am, but if you can find me something better, I'm willing to listen. And I explain where I am being compensated now, and explain "better" would have to beat those things. They say "oh, yes, we can!" and then of course, the only thing that may be even…

I'll start forwarding you all my recruiter emails! :)

Uh, thanks?

suspects this is in the class of Things To Be Careful What You Wish For

Post reply on HN