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Why Super-Fast Internet Is Coming Super Slowly

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Re: Why Super-Fast Internet Is Coming Super Slowly

#61

Post by talmand »

insuffi wrote: post #39
marknutter wrote: post #23

I have gigabit fiber internet and it doesn't feel all that much faster than my old Comcast 20Mbs connection because the bottleneck isn't my connection, it's the servers I'm asking for content from. For some things it's blazingly fast (downloading updates, torrenting, etc) but for general web surfing the benefit is barely noticeable. I think that's why fiber adoption is slower than broadband adoption was. There's not…

Agreed; the difference between downloading a movie in 10 minutes and 1 minute is rather miniscule. Additionally, I don't think even streaming sites would generally require more than 50 mbps to watch comfortably. Not even talking about regular apps/static content.

As kyrra suggested elsewhere; you don't need the fat pipe for one stream, you need it for multiple streams. My household doesn't have cable TV so it's nice to be able to have the kids watching their stuff on Netflix in the other room while the wife and I are watching The Walking Dead in the living room. Without our FIOS that might not work out quite as nicely.

Re: Why Super-Fast Internet Is Coming Super Slowly

#62

Post by talmand »

kyrra wrote: post #56
marknutter wrote: post #23

I have gigabit fiber internet and it doesn't feel all that much faster than my old Comcast 20Mbs connection because the bottleneck isn't my connection, it's the servers I'm asking for content from. For some things it's blazingly fast (downloading updates, torrenting, etc) but for general web surfing the benefit is barely noticeable. I think that's why fiber adoption is slower than broadband adoption was. There's not…

One of the arguments I saw for faster internet outside of a single-user app is when you have multiple people using a connection. If you have a family of 5 people all using a Cable connection in the US today, it is very easy to overload that line. And since upstream sucks on most home connections today (1.5 to 2 Mbps upstream), a single person uploading a video to youtube (or backing up data) will kill the connection…

For your first thought; that's one of the reasons as to why we love our FIOS connection, we can have multiple streams going at the same time and doesn't disrupt normal web surfing as well. It's a must with a large family.

As for the rest, I would say that it's hard for us to imagine the might single killer app with a gigabit connection because so few have it. Once a certain level of market penetration has happened, whatever that may be, there's no telling what things will come along once bandwidth is no longer a concern.

Re: Why Super-Fast Internet Is Coming Super Slowly

#63

Post by Aloisius »

praxeologist wrote: post #30
seventytwo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? Monopolies ARE capitalism run rampant.

Nonsense. Leftists conflate "state capitalism", cronyism or corporatism with real, free-market capitalism. Internet monopolies like Comcast or TWC enjoy are state-granted monopolies, not "natural monopolies" (which have never existed).

> not "natural monopolies" (which have never existed).

Tell that to Standard Oil or The American Tobacco Company.

Re: Why Super-Fast Internet Is Coming Super Slowly

#64

Post by talmand »

praxeologist wrote: post #30
seventytwo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? Monopolies ARE capitalism run rampant.

Nonsense. Leftists conflate "state capitalism", cronyism or corporatism with real, free-market capitalism. Internet monopolies like Comcast or TWC enjoy are state-granted monopolies, not "natural monopolies" (which have never existed).

Based on my own non-expert personal musings on the subject, I would say that natural monopolies can and do exist in capitalism. It's just that under normal circumstances they would be difficult to sustain over a certain period of time based on several factors. Without some mechanic (often political) in place to prevent a new form of competition or technological progression from developing in the market, then a natural monopoly would likely be reduced by natural market forces.

If you look throughout just American history you can various examples of this. Big, strong companies that eventually fade away to disappear because of failure, lack of vision, or whatever other decisions that held the company back.

It's just that there is very few examples of a true free market, except for maybe on a local level, so that we'll likely never know for sure.

Re: Why Super-Fast Internet Is Coming Super Slowly

#65

Post by res0nat0r »

res0nat0r wrote: post #48
w1ntermute wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't explain why internet speeds suck in NYC.

Population density in NYC and SFO actually hurt new rollouts. That is why those places and Los Angeles will probably be dead last on a Google Fiber rollout (if ever). The old NYC infrastructure and all of the physical work (and permits, contracts, everything else) means a huge overhaul would most likely not be worth doing in dense and already wired places like these. Also rayiner pointed out in another thread that ac…

Also: I know my dissent in pointing out that gigabit internet for $30/month everywhere in the USA isn't going to magically happen isn't popular around here, but you shouldn't down vote something you disagree with.

Re: Why Super-Fast Internet Is Coming Super Slowly

#67

Post by rayiner »

chimeracoder wrote: post #17
jfasi wrote: post #4

I view the broadband industry as a fascinating example of what happens when an infrastructure industry meets the technology industry. TWC and friends were established to enact a business plan that's been viable and profitable for centuries: laying down expensive infrastructure is economically feasible if most of the cost comes up front and you can charge rents on it for decades. Stability is crucial. This is the econ…

> I view the broadband industry as a fascinating example of what happens when an infrastructure industry meets the technology industry. I don't disagree with your comment, but your argument would seem to apply to the rest of the world, whereas in fact the US is in a fairly unique situation among developed countries. Most of the current situation can be explained by the fact that broadband is currently the only unregu…

Your whole post is based on a false premise, which is that customers have a problem with the status quo. I think internet companies have a problem with the status quo. They want somebody else to build the fat pipes crucial to their business. That's why Google fiber is a marketing and lobbying tool and not a real business.[1] But I don't think consumers here are any less happy than in other places. According to Akamai's state of the internet, the U.S. ranks #8 in average connection speed, ahead of places like Sweden. They have no reason to be. I've never heard someone outside my engineer friends complain about the lack of gigabit or even 50 Mbps+ connections. As long as its enough for Hulu, people are happy.

There are also other problems with your post. For example, we didn't sell off monopoly rights. Its been illegal for municipalities to grant exclusive franchises since 1992. Also, franchises don't come without strings attached. Here in Phila, Comcast has to run cable to a bunch of poor neighborhoods and charge $13 per month for service. Distribution requirements and regulated rates exist in the cable world.

[1] At the end if the day, if Google bought TWC instead, Google's average profit margin would go down.

Re: Why Super-Fast Internet Is Coming Super Slowly

#68

Post by amirhirsch »

zw123456 wrote: post #60
amirhirsch wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's plenty of room in the frequencies, even just using linear momentum encoding with directional transceivers. Add in MIMO/OAM and and suddenly there's even more bandwidth. the FCC / ownership of spectrum is a whole other chimera. Wireless today is like using a LED and a photodiode instead of a screen and a camera.

I should have Googled before I spoke, Orbital Angular Momentum, very interesting... http://lup.lub.lu.se/luur/download?func=downloadFile&recordO...

There's some debate about whether OAM demonstrations are just MIMO, and some suggestions that the eigenmodes are equivalent. Either way, there will be regulatory hurdles to more efficiently using the spectrum. I like the perspective put forward in this post: http://www.reed.com/blog-dpr/?page_id=117

Re: Why Super-Fast Internet Is Coming Super Slowly

#69

Post by reversi_online »

res0nat0r wrote: post #48
w1ntermute wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't explain why internet speeds suck in NYC.

Population density in NYC and SFO actually hurt new rollouts. That is why those places and Los Angeles will probably be dead last on a Google Fiber rollout (if ever). The old NYC infrastructure and all of the physical work (and permits, contracts, everything else) means a huge overhaul would most likely not be worth doing in dense and already wired places like these. Also rayiner pointed out in another thread that ac…

Look, you can't have it both ways. Either population density helps or hinders a fiber rollout--if it helps, then why is the urban U.S.A. just as far behind as the rest? If it hinders, then why do HK and SK have it when NYC doesn't?

As for the remainder--well of course they're not making use of a service that they have no way to buy in the first place...and your insinuations remind me of the people in the early 19th century who howled that the first locomotives' 10 mph crusing speed was far faster than any sane person would ever want to travel.

Re: Why Super-Fast Internet Is Coming Super Slowly

#70

Post by dba7dba »

jfasi wrote: post #4

I view the broadband industry as a fascinating example of what happens when an infrastructure industry meets the technology industry. TWC and friends were established to enact a business plan that's been viable and profitable for centuries: laying down expensive infrastructure is economically feasible if most of the cost comes up front and you can charge rents on it for decades. Stability is crucial. This is the econ…

US achieved its greatness because of free flow of movement of people and their ideas. Roads and freeways and highways were plenty, fast and easily accessible, to both sellers of services/goods and consumers.

In this new world, internet access is the new road. Good internet access will generate new services/goods and encourage consumption by consumers. This will inevitably lead to snowball effect of creating more wealth for the society.

US shouldn't be held hostage by a few people in an executive suite in Philadelphia who want to make a few bucks so they can own a few extra mansions and a private jet or 2. US is a greater country than that.

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