Why is the mouse cursor slightly tilted and not straight? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why is the mouse cursor slightly tilted and not straight?

#61

Post by samatman » Mon, Feb 17, 2014, 6:10 PM UTC

eterm wrote: post #2

I remember windows 3.1 had a utility for drawing custom cursors. I had great fun making cursors (I was around 10 at the time I guess) and had completed forgotten about it until now! I think that utility was a 16x16 grid, and indeed the easiest to see arrows utilsed the vertical, although actually a cursor which uses the horizontal and diagonal isn't bad either.

Indeed! For years I had a custom cursor, it was a mouse point with additional rays on the -x and +y axes. Hard to describe, if you picture the 'crosshatch' style cursor with an ordinary mouse pointer instead of two of the lines, you've got it.

I still feel it combines the precision of a crosshatch with the visibility of an ordinary mouse arrow. Perhaps I should recreate it for the Mac...

Re: Why is the mouse cursor slightly tilted and not straight?

#62

Post by x0054 » Mon, Feb 17, 2014, 6:12 PM UTC

simcop2387 wrote: post #58

JadeNB wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've always been confused as to the success of the computer mouse. It doesn't seem like the ideal solution. Then again, neither do trackpads. Without meaning to be argumentative, what would be ideal? In the absence of an actual better solution, one can explain the success of an obviously sub-optimal but existing solution by "worse is better" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better ).

Things that would appear ideal would be something like either a Light Pen or a Touch screen. Mainly because they'd appear ideal since that's how we interacted with things before computers, so it should enable us to work with computers the same way that we interact with things of the past 5k years or so. that said it's just appearances.

Touch screens where tried and rejected by the military early on because people hands would get tired after a very short time interacting with a vertically mounted touch screen. Horizontal touch screens have other usability challenges.

Re: Why is the mouse cursor slightly tilted and not straight?

#63

Post by JadeNB » Mon, Feb 17, 2014, 6:16 PM UTC

simcop2387 wrote: post #58

JadeNB wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've always been confused as to the success of the computer mouse. It doesn't seem like the ideal solution. Then again, neither do trackpads. Without meaning to be argumentative, what would be ideal? In the absence of an actual better solution, one can explain the success of an obviously sub-optimal but existing solution by "worse is better" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better ).

Things that would appear ideal would be something like either a Light Pen or a Touch screen. Mainly because they'd appear ideal since that's how we interacted with things before computers, so it should enable us to work with computers the same way that we interact with things of the past 5k years or so. that said it's just appearances.

I don't know much about light pens, but it seems from the Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_pen that they are primarily intended for use with CRT monitors, which limits their utility nowadays.

Touch screens are obviously very much modern devices, and, though they're far from ideal as the only input device, I can buy that, when used in conjunction with a keyboard, they are a good replacement for a mouse or trackpad; but don't they suck up power in a way that mice and trackpads don't?

Re: Why is the mouse cursor slightly tilted and not straight?

#64

Post by gojomo » Mon, Feb 17, 2014, 6:28 PM UTC

nollidge wrote: post #50

darkmighty wrote: post #20

Nobody seems to mention a pretty good reason also: standard western text (and content in general) is oriented right-to-left; therefore covering only one side seems to me intuitively less obstructing (we can read perfectly up to the click spot, instead of being confused by what's underneath it)

Nobody mentions it because there's no evidence for that fact being an influence on the design. There's historical evidence for the other reasons. Yours is a just-so story.

Take the oldest, crudest mouse you can find. Place your right hand on it and position it to the right of your keyboard. Put your finger on its primary (or single) button. Look at that finger from your head's natural perspective.

Your pointing/clicking finger will appear to be pointing in an upper-left direction, somewhere between 0' and 45' – exactly like the classic arrow-cursor.

Even if a designer with contemporaneous experience explicitly denied that was n influence in choosing the orientation, I wouldn't believe them. The congruence is too strong.

Re: Why is the mouse cursor slightly tilted and not straight?

#65

Post by nollidge » Mon, Feb 17, 2014, 6:31 PM UTC

gojomo wrote: post #64

nollidge wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody mentions it because there's no evidence for that fact being an influence on the design. There's historical evidence for the other reasons. Yours is a just-so story.

Take the oldest, crudest mouse you can find. Place your right hand on it and position it to the right of your keyboard. Put your finger on its primary (or single) button. Look at that finger from your head's natural perspective. Your pointing/clicking finger will appear to be pointing in an upper-left direction, somewhere between 0' and 45' – exactly like the classic arrow-cursor. Even if a designer with contemporane…

OK? I'm not sure what that's supposed to do with the post I replied to.

Re: Why is the mouse cursor slightly tilted and not straight?

#66

Post by g_glitch » Mon, Feb 17, 2014, 6:41 PM UTC

jokoon wrote: post #40

still no way to change the cursors under mac os x ?

I've changed my cursors under OS X for a long time now. Check out /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HiServices.framework/Versions/A/Resources/cursors for the special ones. (People make replacement packs that are drop-in replacements for the cursor image files.)

For the main cursor, use a combination of Cursorcerer and HotMouse.

Re: Why is the mouse cursor slightly tilted and not straight?

#67

Post by webwielder » Mon, Feb 17, 2014, 6:42 PM UTC

simcop2387 wrote: post #58

JadeNB wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've always been confused as to the success of the computer mouse. It doesn't seem like the ideal solution. Then again, neither do trackpads. Without meaning to be argumentative, what would be ideal? In the absence of an actual better solution, one can explain the success of an obviously sub-optimal but existing solution by "worse is better" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better ).

Things that would appear ideal would be something like either a Light Pen or a Touch screen. Mainly because they'd appear ideal since that's how we interacted with things before computers, so it should enable us to work with computers the same way that we interact with things of the past 5k years or so. that said it's just appearances.

I've heard that touch screens are becoming pretty popular.

Re: Why is the mouse cursor slightly tilted and not straight?

#68

Post by pbhjpbhj » Mon, Feb 17, 2014, 6:46 PM UTC

ds9 wrote: post #36

darkmighty wrote: post #20

Nobody seems to mention a pretty good reason also: standard western text (and content in general) is oriented right-to-left; therefore covering only one side seems to me intuitively less obstructing (we can read perfectly up to the click spot, instead of being confused by what's underneath it)

Some of the Linux GUIs used to have a feature that, if you set the mouse to left-handed, the cursor would tilt the other way. It was very ergonomic and seemed natural (and I would like it back :)

FWIW on KDE there are several cursor sets available via the "download new content" system with left-handed primary cursors; but yes it seems you have to select them yourself rather than them being automatically applied.

Re: Why is the mouse cursor slightly tilted and not straight?

#69

Post by anonymouz » Mon, Feb 17, 2014, 6:47 PM UTC

eterm wrote: post #2

I remember windows 3.1 had a utility for drawing custom cursors. I had great fun making cursors (I was around 10 at the time I guess) and had completed forgotten about it until now! I think that utility was a 16x16 grid, and indeed the easiest to see arrows utilsed the vertical, although actually a cursor which uses the horizontal and diagonal isn't bad either.

Microsoft Plus! for Windows 95 had lots of fun themes. The cursor of the science theme was a glass tube with some chemical bubbling inside. Unfortunately, I can't even seem to locate pictures of those themes.

Re: Why is the mouse cursor slightly tilted and not straight?

#70

Post by thwarted » Mon, Feb 17, 2014, 6:48 PM UTC

Stratoscope wrote: post #59

darkmighty wrote: post #20

Nobody seems to mention a pretty good reason also: standard western text (and content in general) is oriented right-to-left; therefore covering only one side seems to me intuitively less obstructing (we can read perfectly up to the click spot, instead of being confused by what's underneath it)

But the arrow cursor is not used for selecting text. The cursor switches to an I-beam over selectable text. This was the case as far back as the original Mac; I'm not sure which cursors were used on systems before that.

Not all on-screen text is selectable!