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1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

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Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#61

Post by kungpooey »

dubfan wrote: post #39
kungpooey wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I speak only as someone who was raised in a somewhat alternative upbringing. I wouldn't describe it as anti-science, but perhaps more critical of science. I thought moving away from those rural areas would bring me to see things differently, but overall anything claiming to be science, especially once you get into the more controversial subjects, seems to be more corrupted than nearly any industry which could impact…

This is exactly what I mean. Science is not a religion. It is not a faith. Calling it that betrays a lack of understanding of the scientific method. The scientific method is not perfect and there are worrisome trends in modern practices of science (see the recent story about p-values being misused) but this is the sort of thinking that leads people to believe in nonsense like psychics, dowsing, homeopathy, anti-vacci…

Then in regards to time and effort invested, I would say many of the very critical parties I've met are doing it right. Scientist by-and-large are doing it wrong, in my opinion. There are parties still upheld by the climate debate which still refuse to share the data and methods they used to declare their findings. I don't care which side of the fence you're on, that's bullshit and can only be evidence of manipulation.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#62

Post by aortega »

jballanc wrote: post #18
aortega wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I've found in my general experiences that many people don't know what a scientific theory is. They think it means a guess. Well they are correct.

Fact: In science, an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed. Law: A descriptive generalization about how some aspect of the natural world behaves under stated circumstances. Hypothesis: A testable statement about the natural world that can be used to build more complex inferences and explanations. Theory: In science, a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate fac…

Funny you mention the Newton's Laws of Motion, that's the most famous theory demonstrated to be totally wrong.

It was a very good guess though.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#63

Post by piyush_soni »

jsdalton wrote: post #28

While true, the actual data presents a different picture: http://i.imgur.com/FXMlOZB.png [source: http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind14/content/chapter-7/c07.... ] So actually, the U.S. had the second highest score on that question, behind South Korea. Furthermore, the U.S. consistently performed on par or higher vs. the other countries/regions for the remaining questions. The real outlier for the U.S. on this survey…

Does that mean around 1 out of 2 Americans doesn't believe in evolution? That's scary.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#64

Post by chc »

aortega wrote: post #51
jballanc wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Falsifiability is a feature of every element of science. Something that is not falsifiable isn't science. Period. But a Theory is not a guess. It is a framework built from individual pieces, some of which may be hypotheses (effectively guesses) that have been tested and found to hold within the larger structure of that framework.

If you are based in individual pieces that may be effectively guesses, how you are not also a guess?

Because you have been tested. The term "guess" implies lack of good grounding.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#65

Post by baddox »

omarali wrote: post #13

I thought it's relative to what frame of reference you choose.

Technically, both objects are orbiting their barycenter, or center of mass. For the Sun and Earth, that barycenter is very near the center of the Sun, so in common parlance most people will refer to the Earth as orbiting the Sun.

Perhaps asking whether "the planets" orbit the Sun would lower the chance of ambiguity.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#66

Post by cema »

piyush_soni wrote: post #63
jsdalton wrote: post #28

While true, the actual data presents a different picture: http://i.imgur.com/FXMlOZB.png [source: http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind14/content/chapter-7/c07.... ] So actually, the U.S. had the second highest score on that question, behind South Korea. Furthermore, the U.S. consistently performed on par or higher vs. the other countries/regions for the remaining questions. The real outlier for the U.S. on this survey…

Does that mean around 1 out of 2 Americans doesn't believe in evolution? That's scary.

Why is that scary? If we assume it is indeed a matter of belief the 50/50 chance is not that bad. Now, I suppose both you and me think about it more as a matter of science, but how many people understand what science is (and why), how the scientific method is applied and so on? Well fewer than 50%, I'd guess. US, Europe or Africa, any place.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#67

Post by ballard »

pyrrhotech wrote: post #41
jsdalton wrote: post #28

While true, the actual data presents a different picture: http://i.imgur.com/FXMlOZB.png [source: http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind14/content/chapter-7/c07.... ] So actually, the U.S. had the second highest score on that question, behind South Korea. Furthermore, the U.S. consistently performed on par or higher vs. the other countries/regions for the remaining questions. The real outlier for the U.S. on this survey…

That's obviously because a lot of people have religious beliefs that make more sense to them than evolution. It's not that they haven't heard of evolution, but that they reject it for the simpler theory found in their 3000 year old book.

Something like 95% of the entire human population believes in something supernatural. And also, what other nonsense do they believe?

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#68

Post by MichaelGG »

pyrrhotech wrote: post #41
jsdalton wrote: post #28

While true, the actual data presents a different picture: http://i.imgur.com/FXMlOZB.png [source: http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind14/content/chapter-7/c07.... ] So actually, the U.S. had the second highest score on that question, behind South Korea. Furthermore, the U.S. consistently performed on par or higher vs. the other countries/regions for the remaining questions. The real outlier for the U.S. on this survey…

That's obviously because a lot of people have religious beliefs that make more sense to them than evolution. It's not that they haven't heard of evolution, but that they reject it for the simpler theory found in their 3000 year old book.

IME, that's because most people haven't ever heard any reasonable explanation of evolution. They honestly believe that evolution is just "random things happened and fish decided to walk on land". That "animals wanted to see so they randomly got eyes". Given that explanation of evolution of course they're going to reject it - that explanation is nonsense.

Creation is only simpler if you exclude the axiom of having some omnipotent creator in the first place.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#69

Post by everyone »

waps wrote: post #37

In other news : 3 in 4 hacker news readers don't know the earth doesn't orbit the sun at all. That is an impression created by the fact that the space around the sun moves as a result of gravity. This results in that the location of the earth doesn't change, but as the sun is sucking in space and constantly pushing out it's matter the distance doesn't change. This results in the fact that a straight line path around…

Yes the relativistic model is more accurate but like any physics it is still a model and only an approximation.

The newtonian / euclidian model is going to be accurate enough for most people (and some space missions) + its much simpler to compute and also it lies closer to human 'common sense' making it a lot easier for people to grasp and think about intuitively.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#70

Post by lutusp »

wvenable wrote: post #55
waps wrote: post #37

In other news : 3 in 4 hacker news readers don't know the earth doesn't orbit the sun at all. That is an impression created by the fact that the space around the sun moves as a result of gravity. This results in that the location of the earth doesn't change, but as the sun is sucking in space and constantly pushing out it's matter the distance doesn't change. This results in the fact that a straight line path around…

> the earth is standing still, it's not moving... it is moving in a straight line Wait, is the earth moving or not? I also can't figure out what definition of orbit you are using. Your comment feels far too clever for it's own good.

The OP is trying to argue that there's a preferred frame of reference in a physical theory (relativity) that explicitly disallows preferred frames of reference. If you took a position roughly 200 million miles (about 320 million kilometers) above the sun's north pole, and watched from there, you would certainly see the earth orbit the sun. The reason? Different curvature from that perspective.

The OP could have simply said that, in relativity, there's no force called gravity, instead planets orbit their parent bodies because of curved four-dimensional spacetime. He then could have quoted physicist John Wheeler, who famously said, "Matter tells space how to curve, and space tells matter how to move."

After the OP correctly said that the earth is moving through curved spacetime in a straight line, IMHO he should have turned in his golf clubs.

> Your comment feels far too clever for it's own good.

You got that exactly right. The OP's intention is to confuse, not enlighten.

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