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Why I Tried To Kill Myself at Penn

pennmentalhealth.tumblr.com

61–70 of 80 posts

Re: Why I Tried To Kill Myself at Penn

#61
post #46
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suggest that you think a bit more deeply about this. It's possible that the administrator was being thoughtless, but there's another interpretation -- it's a bad idea to give suicide attempters too much attention. By responding with too much sympathy, one can become a "suicide enabler", the suicide equivalent of a narcissistic enabler. If a person threatens suicide and gets nothing but attention and sympathy, this…

I find this sentiment alarming. I'd ask you to reread the article, particularly the first quarter of it, and stipulate that the account is accurate. What do you think of this particular response to an actual suicide attempt? I'm sorry about your brother. I've lost close friends to suicide. For what it's worth: I don't blame them, anymore than I would blame someone who died of leukemia for their illness. But a suicide…

> I find this sentiment alarming.

It's not a "sentiment", it's a case history. My brother created a list of guilty parties, people responsible for a suicide, but didn't include the suicide on the list. My nephew drew the obvious conclusion -- if he killed himself, this would place him outside any notion of responsibility, and he would get massive sympathy as well.

It was unbelievably irresponsible to portray suicide that way, and it had a predictable effect. But the responsibility for suicide rests solely with those who kill themselves.

> I've lost close friends to suicide. For what it's worth: I don't blame them ...

I do. To me, if suicides understand that they'll be held responsible, that they will be judged to have ungratefully thrown away the gift of life, they shouldn't expect sympathy, that might have a beneficial effect on the suicide rate.

Re: Why I Tried To Kill Myself at Penn

#62
post #18
post #6

Penn’s response? – Sending some administrator to see me in the hospital (HUP). The first and only thing that she said was, “Are we going to make this an annual pattern?” because I had been hospitalized the year before. I said “No” and she gave me her business card. My kids are going to college in a couple of years. How do I avoid sending them to places like this? People expect (and should expect) to be treated better…

Send them to a small teaching-focused college. Institutions that are large, focused on graduate students, and/or focused on research have an incentive structure that puts a lower priority on the care of individual students. I went to a tl;dr Go somewhere that you're a person and not a statistic.

It's really interesting to notice the trade-offs. I went to a small-ish, teaching-focused college (The University of Puget Sound: http://www.pugetsound.edu/). And just as you say, I found that the faculty and staff was really supportive and concerned with our well-being.

And while the faculty was very strong, I sometimes felt jealous of friends from the University of Washington (the nearby Huge Research Institution) and what seemed like a more extensive CS program with more resources. I heard about some of the classes my friends took that our program didn't really have any equivalent for. I would read about some of the problem sets that sounded amazing, like a security class where you're given a VM image and the problem set is to compromise some of the programs inside the VM. Advanced curriculum like that seems difficult to develop without a lot of grad students around. A part of me has always pined for that experience I didn't get to have.

I guess it's hard to have it all.

Re: Why I Tried To Kill Myself at Penn

#63
post #47
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suggest that you think a bit more deeply about this. It's possible that the administrator was being thoughtless, but there's another interpretation -- it's a bad idea to give suicide attempters too much attention. By responding with too much sympathy, one can become a "suicide enabler", the suicide equivalent of a narcissistic enabler. If a person threatens suicide and gets nothing but attention and sympathy, this…

I'm very sorry you lost people to suicide. Compiling the list may just have been a coping mechanism for your brother, and I don't think it's fair to think it had anything to do with the son's suicide.

> Compiling the list may just have been a coping mechanism for your brother, and I don't think it's fair to think it had anything to do with the son's suicide.

I didn't say it that way, either here or at the time. I only warned my brother that the list might provoke my nephew to kill himself, not that this would make my brother responsible. The actual suicide was, of course, solely the responsibility of the nephew.

Re: Why I Tried To Kill Myself at Penn

#64
When I have a broken leg I go to doctors to have it fixed. My friends[1] play an important role in helping me get groceries or chatting to me about the awful itchyness. But qualified professionals do the xrays and put the cast on.

When I have a severe mental health problem why do people think that a few chats with people who have little experience of mentla health treatment is going to help?

Sure, for the mild end society really needs to be better at talking about this stuff. And it's great if people are supportive when talking about the severe end too. But chatting to a pal is 't going to fix my suicidal thinking.

I found the blog post confusing. It refers to an event from a few years ago and MH practice moves rapidly. It mentioned how tricky the author found it to talk about MH problems but then asks other people to be better at talking about MH problems. She mentions a history of depression and anxiety but she didn't appear to have good rainy day action plans or coping techniques.

I'm not sure what the takeawY is: "don't be a high stress environment" seems reasonable but you're fighting a losing battle with that one.

[1] lol as if I have friends.

Re: Why I Tried To Kill Myself at Penn

#66
post #2

> I tried to kill myself at Penn because I felt so utterly alone. If I was the only person on Earth, I wouldn't kill myself. Life isn't about feeling happy all the time.

FWIW, I find being alone/lonely when surrounded by happy bustling people is much more crushing than being or feeling alone with no other people around. In the latter case, you can kind of ignore it a little, in the former it's right in front of you, teasing you, but just out of reach.

Ah yes, the ol' "alone in a crowd" feeling. You're surrounded by people, but you can't relate to them and don't see them as being able to relate to you, even though it's statistically likely that some of them feel similar to you and put on a good face.

Re: Why I Tried To Kill Myself at Penn

#67
post #60
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When someone expresses suicidal ideation you get that person support because suicidal thinking is a risk factor for attempted and completed suicide. Treating a suicidal person harshly because you don't want to encourage suicidal behaviour is a sub optimal strategy if your aim is to reduce the numbers or people attempting suicide and dying from suicide. Suicide is a significant cause of death so it's probably a good t…

> Treating a suicidal person harshly ... Wait, what? That's not what I said. I'm saying it's a mistake to give too much attention and sympathy to suicidal ideations.

I would equate that to being harsh.

Re: Why I Tried To Kill Myself at Penn

#68
post #61
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this sentiment alarming. I'd ask you to reread the article, particularly the first quarter of it, and stipulate that the account is accurate. What do you think of this particular response to an actual suicide attempt? I'm sorry about your brother. I've lost close friends to suicide. For what it's worth: I don't blame them, anymore than I would blame someone who died of leukemia for their illness. But a suicide…

> I find this sentiment alarming. It's not a "sentiment", it's a case history. My brother created a list of guilty parties, people responsible for a suicide, but didn't include the suicide on the list. My nephew drew the obvious conclusion -- if he killed himself, this would place him outside any notion of responsibility, and he would get massive sympathy as well. It was unbelievably irresponsible to portray suicide…

How important do you think the list was as a factor? Is it the main factor? Or do you mention it to support a point?

Re: Why I Tried To Kill Myself at Penn

#69
While in college I also felt out of place and friendless for some time. My suggestion to college students now would be to join clubs around your interests. Soccer, ultimate frisbee, archery, chess, trading cards, what ever. Just make a little effort, and I am sure you will find friends. Join clubs you personally like, rather then clubs that make you look cool or something like that. This way you'll actually hang out with people who like the same things you do, and may give you more of a chance.

To colleges, create a system that makes it easy to organize such clubs and maintain them. Like a college centric meetup. Set it up and promote the hell out of it to the first years. Perhaps there is a startup opportunity here, to make the system and sell it to colleges! Facebook works well for this, but it would be easier to do this if there was a central repository of different group that college students have started, and a simple way to request university resources, like rooms, etc.

On suicide, this may sound cold, but if you want to kill your self, do it. Honestly, I feel it's every persons right to dispose off with their life as they will. But DO NOT threaten suicide as a way to get attention! Doing so is no different then you taking someone as a hostage and threatening to kill that person just to get attention. You are basically saying to the world "Pay attention to me, and if you do not, someone is going to die, and it's YOUR fault." If you feel really sad, call your friends and be honest, tell them that you feel really sad and you NEED someone to talk to desperately. If they are your true friends, they will make time for you. I would, for any of the people I call friends, no matter the time of night or what ever. And if they ignore you, telling them you are going to kill your self isn't going to change anything, they are not your friends, and they don't give a shit. Call your parents or family, if that's an option. Parents may seem like distant and not understanding at that age, but in most cases they will stick by you even if you have no one else.

Finally, just food for thought, my dad once told me this about evolution: In nature the "winners" are those creatures that pass their genes on to the next generation, and the "losers" are those creatures who's genetic lineage is cut off. Just based on the fact that you are alive today you can be assured that you come for a very, very, very long line of winners. So, when you feel down on your self, just remember, there are millions of generations of creatures which came before you. They figured out how to succeed in life, thus making you possible, and so will you, just give it time. Just about the only way to lose in life it to stop playing. So check out if you like, but if you stick around, the odds are on your side.

Re: Why I Tried To Kill Myself at Penn

#70
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Send them to a small teaching-focused college. Institutions that are large, focused on graduate students, and/or focused on research have an incentive structure that puts a lower priority on the care of individual students. I went to a tl;dr Go somewhere that you're a person and not a statistic.

It's really interesting to notice the trade-offs. I went to a small-ish, teaching-focused college (The University of Puget Sound: http://www.pugetsound.edu/ ). And just as you say, I found that the faculty and staff was really supportive and concerned with our well-being. And while the faculty was very strong, I sometimes felt jealous of friends from the University of Washington (the nearby Huge Research Institution)…

As someone who has done a pretty serviceable job of building those kinds of courses for systems security: I wouldn't be jealous of that at all; the fundamentals of CS are what matters.

If that's something that's still interesting to you, check out http://microcorruption.com.

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