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The Egg (2009)

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Re: The Egg (2009)

#61

Post by mdisraeli »

chroma wrote: post #46

I guess I'm in the minority that doesn't find this story uplifting. The memory reset is the biggest problem, since it doesn't allow the main character to learn from his mistakes. At the end of time, the main character will have his memories and personalities merged. Then he'll look back on countless lifetimes of the same mistakes and regrets. It would be like if someone slipped you some Ambien (to prevent memory form…

...how very human

I see were you are coming from, and for sake of intellectual discussion of speculative fiction even up-voted. But I think there's a whole load of possibilities you've missed.

The most basic one is simply that you're attributing human values to something decidedly not human. That learning from each mistaken life is actually a desirable feature. Perhaps only the aggregate matters. Perhaps, in fact, that which is being studied is so alien to us that we can't see how they are in fact learning through the process. Perhaps the point of existence is experience itself, rather than to be able to make decisions based on that experience. Perhaps we do learn from what we don't directly remember - that glass of warm water still effects the finger we dip in ;)

Then there's the passage of time and characters. Let's pretend for the sake of being able to follow an argument that concepts of "before" and "after" can be applied at all. Perhaps all those minds which we consider horrendous are the earlier ones, and those which come after are increasingly better? Perhaps it is the complete opposite, as we all have the wrong idea as to the way around things should be!

And, of course, we should be careful when interpreting "With each new life you grow and mature and become a larger and greater intellect". After all, we are assuming it is the experiences and learnings of the life which give those results, rather than the process itself. Perhaps it is not that at all, but rather those are simply a bi-product of whatever is really going on. The foetus requires stimulation and its nascent mind simply occupying whilst it grows and matures, and the nature of that stimulation has no effect what so ever.

I must admit, though, I have a fondness for your lovecraftian horror twist interpretation ;)

Re: The Egg (2009)

#62

Post by yc-kjh »

Incompatible with Free Will

The story is incompatible with free will. The only way the universe could be the way it is, with the one person living all those lives, yet always choosing such that the other people (him in another re-incarnation) also always choose as they (he) did, it would be necessary for free will not to exist.

But this would also mean that the "god" in this story also didn't have free will, because the man was "of his (god's) kind".

But if God does not have free will, he isn't the greatest possible being. The universe thus described therefore fails Anselm's Ontological Argument for the Existence of God. The hypothetical God who is identical to the God in this story, with the exception that He DOES have free will, is obviously a greater being.

I conclude that this story cannot possibly describe Reality, as It actually Is.

Re: The Egg (2009)

#63

Post by judk »

chroma wrote: post #46

I guess I'm in the minority that doesn't find this story uplifting. The memory reset is the biggest problem, since it doesn't allow the main character to learn from his mistakes. At the end of time, the main character will have his memories and personalities merged. Then he'll look back on countless lifetimes of the same mistakes and regrets. It would be like if someone slipped you some Ambien (to prevent memory form…

It's not uplifting, it is a parable of karma. It is posing the claim that we are all one life, and you should seek to uplift all of humanity, because you will live every life, even the lowest.

Or that you should uplift the best life of humanity, because you will live it.

But generally, work for a distribution that you would prefer.

It is a spin on Bentham(?)/Rawls(?) Philosophy that you should choose a social contact/morality that you'd find acceptable if you didn't know who you would be born as.

Re: The Egg (2009)

#65

Post by judk »

anigbrowl wrote: post #36
gojomo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, a title of "The Egg" might not have attracted enough views and upvotes for you to have seen it. There's a pique/spoil trade-off, now in social media more than ever. (In this case, the first line might have worked just as well, though: "You were on your way home when you died...")

The Egg (short Sci-fi story) would have been perfectly adequate.

Speculative fiction, or parable, or fable, or theology.

Re: The Egg (2009)

#66

Post by hobs »

yc-kjh wrote: post #62

Incompatible with Free Will The story is incompatible with free will. The only way the universe could be the way it is, with the one person living all those lives, yet always choosing such that the other people (him in another re-incarnation) also always choose as they (he) did, it would be necessary for free will not to exist. But this would also mean that the "god" in this story also didn't have free will, because…

With some specific FMRI tests, they have shown that your decisions are being made before your are consciousnessly aware of them, therefore what we would call free will is called into question as something that exists at all, and arguing our consciousness is not an artifact of many lower level processes is a hard sell. (to me anyway)

Additionally: I don't see how the ontological argument ever was correct, "god is the most perfect, therefore he exists because an attribute of perfection is existence" is about the most ass backwards way of trying to prove the existence of anything, much less the creator of the universe. I conclude the this story is about as accurate as any other non-evidence based argument for some sort of creator and how they(it/he/she) works.

Re: The Egg (2009)

#67

Post by michaelhoney »

yc-kjh wrote: post #62

Incompatible with Free Will The story is incompatible with free will. The only way the universe could be the way it is, with the one person living all those lives, yet always choosing such that the other people (him in another re-incarnation) also always choose as they (he) did, it would be necessary for free will not to exist. But this would also mean that the "god" in this story also didn't have free will, because…

Anselm's ontological argument is, however, bollocks. Merely postulating the existence of a greatest possible being is irrelevant as to whether such a being exists, or whether free will is even possible. There's no evidence that it is apart from our feeling and wishing it were so.

Re: The Egg (2009)

#68

Post by yc-kjh »

michaelhoney wrote: post #67
yc-kjh wrote: post #62

Incompatible with Free Will The story is incompatible with free will. The only way the universe could be the way it is, with the one person living all those lives, yet always choosing such that the other people (him in another re-incarnation) also always choose as they (he) did, it would be necessary for free will not to exist. But this would also mean that the "god" in this story also didn't have free will, because…

Anselm's ontological argument is, however, bollocks. Merely postulating the existence of a greatest possible being is irrelevant as to whether such a being exists, or whether free will is even possible. There's no evidence that it is apart from our feeling and wishing it were so.

The ontological argument makes a lot more sense when you start from Augustine's viewpoint that evil is always a privation, a lack, and never a thing itself. In fact, it cannot be understood without Augustine's understanding of evil as a framework.

Re: The Egg (2009)

#69

Post by yc-kjh »

hobs wrote: post #66
yc-kjh wrote: post #62

Incompatible with Free Will The story is incompatible with free will. The only way the universe could be the way it is, with the one person living all those lives, yet always choosing such that the other people (him in another re-incarnation) also always choose as they (he) did, it would be necessary for free will not to exist. But this would also mean that the "god" in this story also didn't have free will, because…

With some specific FMRI tests, they have shown that your decisions are being made before your are consciousnessly aware of them, therefore what we would call free will is called into question as something that exists at all, and arguing our consciousness is not an artifact of many lower level processes is a hard sell. (to me anyway) Additionally: I don't see how the ontological argument ever was correct, "god is the…

> your decisions are being made > before your are consciousnessly aware of them

Yes, I'm aware of these studies.

But they make the mistake of presupposing materialist reductionism a priori, as if it were actually true.

Those who assume materialist reductionism have an entire set of questions they are incapable of answering, such as:

1) How can teleology arise from non-teleology? 2) Whence consciousness? 3) How can something come from nothing?

There is a great deal of evidence that materialism is not the best explanation for Reality. If you want to see some of this evidence, read "Mind and Cosmos" by Thomas Nagel.

Re: The Egg (2009)

#70

Post by vacri »

jafaku wrote: post #19
crntaylor wrote: post #4

This would have been a significantly more enjoyable experience if the title of the submission didn't give away the ending.

Seriously OP, why would you put the end in the title?

The story really isn't about the 'twist' at the end.
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