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Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years

johnkurkowski.com

61–70 of 97 posts

Re: Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years

#61
post #15

> "Programming is a notion to extend human capability, by offloading humanly-infeasible work onto a machine. It is the promise of an amplified knowledge worker. This would be worthy to learn." With this (correct) notion the author continues until he decides that > "Meanwhile there are few souls looking to evolve text code into something more humanly intuitive. For example something you can touch, you don’t have to re…

Moreover, I'd just jump in here to point out that effective communication with people quite frequently involves "text code".

Is the entire premise of Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) not that you can influence people's thought patterns by using language as code, as instructions?

Re: Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years

#62
We currently have a decentralized mess of competing products. Many of them overlap and do similar things, but they all feed off of each other to improve. It is this competitive environment that improves the products and libraries we use. Anybody can identify a flaw in an existing system and build something to address it.

What this article proposes is a monolithic culture, where everything is centralized and controlled by a few entities. We tried this in the IBM/Microsoft days and it doesn't work. We end up with a single poorly documented tool that offers limited functionality.

The world of programming is more accessible today than ever before. If you are a novice, there are tools for you. If you are an expert, there are tools for you. If you are transitioning from novice to expert, there are tools for you!

Re: Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years

#63
post #9

Hold on a second. OOP, markup, APIs, and HTML/CSS/JS are snake oil, while visual programming isn't? Say what you will about the former technologies, but they're being used for productive purposes. Visual programming is vaporware that someone tries to build every 5 years or so to no effect. Functional programming has much the same challenge, but it's getting integrated into mainstream languages. Otherwise, it would li…

I would make the argument that purely functional programming languages have already seen success and are seeing more as time goes on.

Re: Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never personally used LabView (well, maybe in a Physics 101 lab in college, but that was a while back). The people using it in the offices I've worked in have generally been electrical engineers, perhaps the schematic view meshes better with their mental model of computation. It seemed to work well on most of the projects. EDIT: I should add, when I did look at the LabView stuffs, it seemed to make sense to me (as…

I suspect that of equal importance to the schematic view, for electrical engineers, is the dataflow programming model. Another dataflow based programming tool, albeit non Turing complete, is Excel.

Excel is not dataflow based and it is not non-Turing complete; you're thinking of something else altogether.

To guide intuition without making things tediously formal, most things that can go into an infinite loop are Turing equivalent.

Re: Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years

#67

Just because something is hard doesn't mean it's broken. Nobody would say that say, advanced mathematics is broken because the layman doesn't get it. My bullshit detector notes that he talks very generally about "knowledge workers leveraging machines". The problem with the phrase "knowledge worker" is it often means "person who sends lots of emails". You don't need to be a programmer to send lots of emails. Real "kno…

> Nobody would say that say, advanced mathematics is broken because the layman doesn't get it. We do make math more tractable and accessible over time with various reformulations and new abstractions and conceptual tools, though. You're probably using arabic numerals when you do arithmetic, and there are good reasons for that. (Though heaven knows, if I'm likely to run across an abacist anywhere in this sort of discu…

but in the end, most people can't understand vector calculus, just like most people cant understand programming no matter how easy you make the syntax, the concepts themselves can be hard to grasp.

Re: Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years

#68

Just because something is hard doesn't mean it's broken. Nobody would say that say, advanced mathematics is broken because the layman doesn't get it. My bullshit detector notes that he talks very generally about "knowledge workers leveraging machines". The problem with the phrase "knowledge worker" is it often means "person who sends lots of emails". You don't need to be a programmer to send lots of emails. Real "kno…

> Nobody would say that say, advanced mathematics is broken because the layman doesn't get it. We do make math more tractable and accessible over time with various reformulations and new abstractions and conceptual tools, though. You're probably using arabic numerals when you do arithmetic, and there are good reasons for that. (Though heaven knows, if I'm likely to run across an abacist anywhere in this sort of discu…

And computers have been made more tractable and accessible over time with reformulations and abstractions. And at a much faster pace.

People who think that programming is not dramatically easier today than ten years ago just have a short memory. Or they're 25 years old...

Re: Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years

#69
post #64

Don't learn how to paint, learn how to create art. How is one without the other?

"The current state of painting sucks. You have to figure out which colour mixes with which colour to become what. You have to learn how to hold the brush and what different brushes do. you have to learn different strokes. It shouldn't be like that at all, you shouldn't have to LEARN all those arcane things at all. People have been doing it for CENTURIES and they are unwilling to change due to some perverse pride in all of this. What should be, is that you think of a pretty picture and tada! It appears on Canvas. Without you going through the process of actually making it"

That's is the Author's viewpoint.

Re: Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years

#70
I think the reason visual programming hasn't taken off is there is a very real difference between what you can express with language and what you can express visually. Images don't really contain determinate, precise statements or propositions the same way that written or spoken word does. In contrast language can express any thought, no matter how recursive or abstract, effortlessly. For the narrow domain of programming - not typesetting, not rendering and manipulating images - the text editor happens to be an extremely very powerful tool that allows us to tell the computer exactly what we want it to do. It hasn't been replaced because it hasn't needed to be - it is simply the most powerful tool in which to write language.

The other reason visual programming hasn't taken off is because programmers aren't visually oriented, right-brained, intuitive people. Exceptions to this rule abound, but I am certainly not one of them, and neither are many programmers I've known. They've tended to be left brained, linear, linguistic, rational-over-intuitive sort of people - which is why we pick up computer languages so quickly, and it's also why we like typing code into a text editor instead of drawing our program on screen. I know that functionality isn't lateralized to easily and this is an oversimplification - but there does seem to be a dispositional difference between those who are attracted to programming and those who aren't.

But this'll probably change, as everything does. As the author notes FP and lambda calculus have been around since the beginning of computer science as a field and they are just now starting to get mainstream traction. So, maybe, in about 20 years visual programming tools will start to be mature enough to applied to any arbitrary problem., and a powerful visual language will develop that attracts enough visually-oriented people to change or revolutionize the field. But we can't put the chicken before the egg - the tooling needs to mature enough to cause this network effect to occur.

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