Isn't this just a matter of being in the best environment for what you are trying to achieve? Is it a slap in the face to Canadian arts and culture every time an actor leaves and moves to LA? There are some realities involved and doing what's best for yourself shouldn't be interpreted as some personal attack against your culture. There should be no expectation that your country of origin would get preferential treatment when weighing the options.
Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system
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Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system
#62I am a 1987 Manipal Institute of technology graduate. MIT Manipal may not be mentioned in the same breath as the IIT's but is (or used to be) in the top 100 engineering colleges in India. It is private and is much more expensive though I believe it was much more affordable to middle class families in the 1970s and 80s than it is today.
Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system
#63“We are all human beings, and our nationality is simply an accident of birth.” This is my position on the Olympics and basically all national pride. It has nothing to do with anything, there is nothing to be proud of. No one cares when I think it, it's nice to see others say it.
That's a lot like saying, you could be born to any mother. It is simply an accident of birth, who is your mother. Does it mean you shouldn't love your mother, your family, and you don't owe your family for their love and bringing you up?
A great analogy. I love my family because they are my family, and I love my country because it is my country. That doesn't mean I should think that either is objectively the best, or turn a blind eye to their faults, or treat others unfairly to favor them.
I love my family and country because they are mine, they helped make me, and my memories are with them. Which helps me understand why Brits and Egyptians and Chinese, etc, love theirs.
I think good patriotism makes us sympathetic to outsiders rather than the opposite.
Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system
#64“We are all human beings, and our nationality is simply an accident of birth.” This is my position on the Olympics and basically all national pride. It has nothing to do with anything, there is nothing to be proud of. No one cares when I think it, it's nice to see others say it.
That's a lot like saying, you could be born to any mother. It is simply an accident of birth, who is your mother. Does it mean you shouldn't love your mother, your family, and you don't owe your family for their love and bringing you up?
You should not love your mother just because she's your mother, you should love your mother because she loved you and did her best to raise you well
And if she did neither she -deserves- no love
Keyword being deserves, of course you can love a bad mother
I don't see why different rules should apply to a mother who gave birth compared to one who adopted
Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
Culture is the largest difference between people. We are the animal that can (re)program itself. Nationality correlates to culture greatly. So there is still plenty of difference between peoples of the world. Its silly to ignore this.
No one is suggesting culture should be ignored. It's pride that's the problem. Did you do something to earn your nationality? Culture in itself is an important difference that makes people a lot more interesting to each other. But the examples given are not the same kind of difference: Olympic swimmers aren't expressing their culture. They're all, by rule, doing exactly the same thing. That the one from your nation d…
I wholeheartedly agree that there's no reason for me to feel pride in an athlete's abilities just because we're from the same nation, but I think a gold medal winning athlete has plenty to be proud of.
Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
No one is suggesting culture should be ignored. It's pride that's the problem. Did you do something to earn your nationality? Culture in itself is an important difference that makes people a lot more interesting to each other. But the examples given are not the same kind of difference: Olympic swimmers aren't expressing their culture. They're all, by rule, doing exactly the same thing. That the one from your nation d…
> Did you do something to earn your nationality? Some people did. As an example, my grandfather had to fight for the right to live according to his culture, because our country was invaded. Once you fought for your freedom, you begin to feel rather strongly about "nationality", defined as belonging to a group of people that share your cultural beliefs. And yes, you could say he "earned" his nationality. He did not fi…
Was he, per chance, invaded by a nation that loved its nationalism uber alles? A nation that was only recently unified from many tribes, and whose politicians longing for a great nation resulted in 50-70 million dead?
No thanks. Nationality is whose warlords turf you are born on. The second we get over this concept, the world will be a better place.
Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
No one is suggesting culture should be ignored. It's pride that's the problem. Did you do something to earn your nationality? Culture in itself is an important difference that makes people a lot more interesting to each other. But the examples given are not the same kind of difference: Olympic swimmers aren't expressing their culture. They're all, by rule, doing exactly the same thing. That the one from your nation d…
Again, silly to argue that dedication, concentration, work ethic, attitude, family support are not cultural. They all affect how well that swimmer swims on the day. This is really very obvious, and its disingenuous to pretend otherwise.
>silly to argue that dedication, concentration, work ethic, attitude, family support are not cultural.
No, it's silly to argue that they are. You've exclusively mentioned virtues that are as common to every culture as they are to every grouping of humans that hasn't been designed intentionally to exclude them.
Culture largely consists of meals, hairstyles and clothing, dancing and mating habits, religion and racism, architecture, crafts, holidays, and nostalgia over mass media touchstones or memories of common suffering due to weather, famine, dictatorship, and war.
When people speak about culture writ large rather than a specific subset, it's usually when they're accusing foreigners or immigrants of lacking "dedication, concentration, work ethic, attitude, [and] family support" or explaining why the citizens of one's own country haven't achieved the "dedication, concentration, work ethic, attitude, [and] family support" of some country with more civil rights, and therefore aren't ready for more civil rights.
Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system
#68Isn't this just a matter of being in the best environment for what you are trying to achieve? Is it a slap in the face to Canadian arts and culture every time an actor leaves and moves to LA? There are some realities involved and doing what's best for yourself shouldn't be interpreted as some personal attack against your culture. There should be no expectation that your country of origin would get preferential treatm…
I don't think the author is expecting any special treatment, but rather questioning why the local option seems so dead-end to so many young go-getters.
Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system
#69Statistically, it compares the single case of Nadella to the statistical blob of people that is the "Indian system". Tough comparison when there are a billion of Indians, and the other dozen examples given don't change that. Politically, it calls the US not being nationalist (or at least hostile towards Indians in particular) in this case a "slap in the face". Just no.
My feeling exactly. The idea that one man's decision to live and work in another country besmirches his originally country decades later when he finds great success is itself the real insult here.
That may be the headline but there's a lot more nuance. One of the stronger points made is that no Indian-born Nobel laureate is an Indian citizen.
Re: Nadella as Microsoft CEO: A slap in the face for Indian system
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's a lot like saying, you could be born to any mother. It is simply an accident of birth, who is your mother. Does it mean you shouldn't love your mother, your family, and you don't owe your family for their love and bringing you up?
A great analogy. I love my family because they are my family, and I love my country because it is my country. That doesn't mean I should think that either is objectively the best, or turn a blind eye to their faults, or treat others unfairly to favor them. I love my family and country because they are mine, they helped make me, and my memories are with them. Which helps me understand why Brits and Egyptians and Chine…
I feel the opposite way. I love my mother because she's objectively ranks as nearly the best mother I could have had, and I love my siblings and aunts, grandparents and great-grandparents because they are objectively the best looking, most intelligent, and most dependable people I could have had in my life. It's the same way I feel about my friends, who frequently remind me that I'm one of the luckiest people in the world.
I've see what other people have to work with, and there have been many exceptions amongst my own family and friends, but as individuals, they are simply better than most other people.
I couldn't care less about blood or soil.