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Hate Parking Tickets? Fixed Fights Them In Court For You

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Re: Hate Parking Tickets? Fixed Fights Them In Court For You

#61

Post by stinkytaco »

SeanLuke wrote: post #45

> There’s an argument to be made that fighting parking tickets just takes money from the community. There's no good argument along these lines. The social good of tickets is as a punitive measure to keep order. Tickets as a revenue mechanism is a social ill, full stop: it promotes the creation of bad law and corruption specifically designed to raise revenue. It's the same awfulness which results in speed traps, perma…

>Tickets as a revenue mechanism is a social ill, full stop

I never buy an argument that is so simple. Tickets are a revenue source and that keeps taxes lower on the backs of people who flaunt the law. If the alternative is New York where parking is such a cluster it's an impediment to business, I think I might take the corruption. It's a far more nuanced problem than you're making it.

Political oversight of revenue sources is necessary, yes, but to say they are an unmitigated bad is to be ignorant of most local budget processes.

Re: Hate Parking Tickets? Fixed Fights Them In Court For You

#62

Post by cobrausn »

khuey wrote: post #55
ceejayoz wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Running red lights has a non-zero risk of killing someone and while I can construct a scenario where my bad parking kills someone, its pretty unlikely. Most of the folks getting red light tickets are getting them from rolling forwards at 1mph while they look for oncoming traffic, though.

[citation needed]

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2011/nov/11/red-light-cam-vendo...

TL;DR - One particular city stopped issuing violations when the camera caught someone turning right on red with a 'rolling stop' because those don't really affect accident rate, revenue drops by 90%, the maker of the cameras sues the city. In other words, abject evidence that the makers and marketers of these cameras only care about revenue.

Re: Hate Parking Tickets? Fixed Fights Them In Court For You

#63

Post by dangrossman »

caprad wrote: post #46
nostromo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a little naive. Local jurisdictions are heavily incentivized to hand out infractions of any kind -- deserved or not. Why? Because they keep the money. What do they spend the money on? Things like public employees and their benefits, including pensions. It's clearly a perverse incentive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive I've always thought that government shouldn't benefit from fines or seized p…

> That's a little naive. Are you saying it is impossible to escape their devious plans, because I have managed to avoid a parking or speeding fine for the last 20 years, simply by following the rules.

It's easy to avoid being ticketed by an incompetent/corrupt parking authority by simply not living in the city they're employed in. You can even keep that up for millennia! That doesn't mean they never give out unjust tickets to the people that do live there.

Re: Hate Parking Tickets? Fixed Fights Them In Court For You

#64

Post by eli »

ceejayoz wrote: post #51
lostlogin wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with all the above except the red light camera thing. Running red lights has a non-zero risk of killing someone and while I can construct a scenario where my bad parking kills someone, its pretty unlikely.

> Running red lights has a non-zero risk of killing someone and while I can construct a scenario where my bad parking kills someone, its pretty unlikely. Most of the folks getting red light tickets are getting them from rolling forwards at 1mph while they look for oncoming traffic, though.

I'm not sure about that, but there have been complaints in some jurisdictions that it creates an incentive to shorten yellow lights, thus catching people who barely missed getting through the intersection in time. To me, just missing a yellow light feels like a far less serious crime than blowing a light that has been red for a while, but I guess the real issue there is the yellow light is timed incorrectly.

Re: Hate Parking Tickets? Fixed Fights Them In Court For You

#65

Post by eli »

parennoob wrote: post #53
lostlogin wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with all the above except the red light camera thing. Running red lights has a non-zero risk of killing someone and while I can construct a scenario where my bad parking kills someone, its pretty unlikely.

In which case someone running red lights should have their license to drive revoked to a certain extent, e.g. "run three red lights and you will lose your privilege to drive for five years." or something like that. This will go far more towards curtailing people running red lights than the existing "pay $100 and go consequence-free" system.

Running a red light is a moving violation that will result in points on your license and eventually the suspension of your license in many (most?) states.

Re: Hate Parking Tickets? Fixed Fights Them In Court For You

#66

Post by lostlogin »

quanticle wrote: post #58
lostlogin wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with all the above except the red light camera thing. Running red lights has a non-zero risk of killing someone and while I can construct a scenario where my bad parking kills someone, its pretty unlikely.

The problem with red light cameras that the OP is referring to is the fact that red-light cameras aren't pointed at the straight-through lanes, where running a red light would potentially cause a fatal T-bone accident. Instead, they're pointed at right turn lanes, where they're more likely to make money from people who didn't stop 100% when performing a right-on-red.

Ahh, my country doesn't allow this. Red means don't go, always. I haven't noticed cameras pointing anywhere other than mid-intersection to catch straight through offenses.

Re: Hate Parking Tickets? Fixed Fights Them In Court For You

#67

Post by parennoob »

eli wrote: post #65
parennoob wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which case someone running red lights should have their license to drive revoked to a certain extent, e.g. "run three red lights and you will lose your privilege to drive for five years." or something like that. This will go far more towards curtailing people running red lights than the existing "pay $100 and go consequence-free" system.

Running a red light is a moving violation that will result in points on your license and eventually the suspension of your license in many (most?) states.

A lot of states differ on this; and I know a couple definitely have ways to get out of the points, essentially by paying money ("take this 'safe driving course'", etc.) I'm sure some states are stricter than others though.

Re: Hate Parking Tickets? Fixed Fights Them In Court For You

#68

Post by lostlogin »

ceejayoz wrote: post #51
lostlogin wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with all the above except the red light camera thing. Running red lights has a non-zero risk of killing someone and while I can construct a scenario where my bad parking kills someone, its pretty unlikely.

> Running red lights has a non-zero risk of killing someone and while I can construct a scenario where my bad parking kills someone, its pretty unlikely. Most of the folks getting red light tickets are getting them from rolling forwards at 1mph while they look for oncoming traffic, though.

I never even considered this, as we can't do a left on red (we drive on the other side). Thanks.

Re: Hate Parking Tickets? Fixed Fights Them In Court For You

#69

Post by eli »

greenyoda wrote: post #27
rgbrenner wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness, are you sure they should be parking there if it's not a loading zone? I once was stuck behind a truck that refused to move on a one-lane street for 20 minutes while he insisted on unloading, backing up traffic 3 blocks down the street.

In midtown NYC, there are lots of narrow streets that have small businesses lining both sides of the street and cars parked on both sides of the street. The only way to deliver anything to these businesses would be to double park the truck. Making double parking illegal there is essentially outlawing commerce on these streets.

I get what you're saying, but double parking is already illegal on those streets no matter how aggressively its enforced. Midtown has commercial parking zones (with their very own meters!). I would imagine the "right" thing to do is park there and "carry" load your goods on a handtruck or similar.

Re: Hate Parking Tickets? Fixed Fights Them In Court For You

#70

Post by stinkytaco »

dangrossman wrote: post #63
caprad wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a little naive. Are you saying it is impossible to escape their devious plans, because I have managed to avoid a parking or speeding fine for the last 20 years, simply by following the rules.

It's easy to avoid being ticketed by an incompetent/corrupt parking authority by simply not living in the city they're employed in. You can even keep that up for millennia ! That doesn't mean they never give out unjust tickets to the people that do live there.

It's also easy to chalk up thousands of perfectly legitimate parking tickets to a few incompetent/corrupt parking authorities that you have no evidence exist except anecdotal experiences.

I’ve now read a half a dozen comments in this thread that I can sum up as "I once got a parking ticket that I shouldn't have, all parking authorities are incompetent and corrupt." No one's telling you that you shouldn't be allowed to challenge a ticket or to address the issue with your locally elected official.

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