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The Ongoing Battle: NY vs. SF Tech Scene

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Re: The Ongoing Battle: NY vs. SF Tech Scene

#61

Post by eshvk »

wheaties wrote: post #26
eshvk wrote: post #13

How are salaries/living expenses in tech different in SF and NYC? Assuming you are living in SF or NYC, of course. Are they higher in NYC or lower or vice versa?

Who cares? you know what's in NYC that trumps that consideration? The opposite sex in balanced ratios. Finding your life partner far outweighs salary or living expenses any day of the week.

Ehh...I think that can go both ways. I know folks who live a pretty isolated existence in NYC and others who have an active dating life in SF. The problem is that if you get stuck in a tech bubble of friends, you are going to find yourself short changed when it comes to meeting women.

(Of course, this all applies to meeting women through friends. I don't do the bar scene so can't really comment on it.)

Re: The Ongoing Battle: NY vs. SF Tech Scene

#62

Post by bradleyjg »

eshvk wrote: post #59
bradleyjg wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly do you think the boundaries of NYC proper are? The East Village is one of the most expensive neighborhoods, not a typical one.

So I don't know enough about NYC to define what a expensive neighborhood is. However, $2300 is about mid range SF neighborhoods. Not highly desirable ones like the better of the mission, Pac Heights etc but something on the intersection of less desirable (deep inner sunset) and actually livable.

NYC incorporated its inner suburbs around 1900. So it is physically much much larger than San Fransico. It also means that there is a great variety of neigborhoods of all economic types -- from extremely wealthy (Upper East Side) to quite poor (Melrose section of the Bronx) -- inside city limits.

All of which is to say that limiting your statement to "NYC proper" doesn't mean much because that covers a lot of ground. If you had made your orginal statement about "Manhattan south of 96th street", it would have meant what I think you were going for. Within in those parameters the East Village is middle of the pack.

Also in reference to your comment above the subways run 24/7 in NYC (albeit on a reduced schedule).

Re: The Ongoing Battle: NY vs. SF Tech Scene

#63

Post by eshvk »

bradleyjg wrote: post #62
eshvk wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I don't know enough about NYC to define what a expensive neighborhood is. However, $2300 is about mid range SF neighborhoods. Not highly desirable ones like the better of the mission, Pac Heights etc but something on the intersection of less desirable (deep inner sunset) and actually livable.

NYC incorporated its inner suburbs around 1900. So it is physically much much larger than San Fransico. It also means that there is a great variety of neigborhoods of all economic types -- from extremely wealthy (Upper East Side) to quite poor (Melrose section of the Bronx) -- inside city limits. All of which is to say that limiting your statement to "NYC proper" doesn't mean much because that covers a lot of ground.…

Ah, gotcha. Apologies for using that phrase then. I merely meant living in NYC vs say living in New Jersey and making the commute (I knew a lot of people who did that.).

Re: The Ongoing Battle: NY vs. SF Tech Scene

#64

Post by TheCoelacanth »

eshvk wrote: post #60
fennecfoxen wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm making comparable salary in NYC, and rent is pretty much in line with San Francisco area standards: $2300/mo studios in desirable areas... the difference in the housing market are these. First, there are more medium-awesome areas to choose from close to town (head to Astoria or East Williamsburg and you might shave $500-1000 off that studio, but you can still catch the N train to get to work and the neighborhood'…

> First, there are more medium-awesome areas to choose from close to town (head to Astoria or East Williamsburg and you might shave $500-1000 off that studio, but you can still catch the N train to get to work and the neighborhood's reasonably cool). Would this be like living across the bay in Oakland or something? The flipside of such a situation would be that you get back home from SF at midnight before the last BA…

They're both just across the river from Manhattan, so it would be a relatively short trip. I believe the trains run all night.

Re: The Ongoing Battle: NY vs. SF Tech Scene

#65

Post by endtime »

eshvk wrote: post #61
wheaties wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares? you know what's in NYC that trumps that consideration? The opposite sex in balanced ratios. Finding your life partner far outweighs salary or living expenses any day of the week.

Ehh...I think that can go both ways. I know folks who live a pretty isolated existence in NYC and others who have an active dating life in SF. The problem is that if you get stuck in a tech bubble of friends, you are going to find yourself short changed when it comes to meeting women. (Of course, this all applies to meeting women through friends. I don't do the bar scene so can't really comment on it.)

I dated a few (attractive/high status) women in NYC whom I met at meetups about things like rationality and graph theory, the last of whom is now my wife. You really have to actively seclude yourself to have a quiet dating life in NYC (as a straight guy).

Re: The Ongoing Battle: NY vs. SF Tech Scene

#66

Post by rexreed »

Not to shock or surprise anyone here, but there's a lot of the tech scene outside BOTH NY and SF. Where's the largest private software company? Cary, NC [1]. Microsoft and Amazon? Based in Seattle. IBM? The non-NYC parts of NY (White Plains and Armonk, NY). And what's happening in different regions like Chicago? Lots going on. DC and Baltimore? Tons of activity -- including a $2.7B acquisition [2] and an IPO or two [3]. Raleigh? Philadelphia? Las Vegas? Indianapolis? Kansas City? Miami? Atlanta? Austin? Estonia? Berlin? ...

And let's not forget Boston / New England ... which is STILL #2 in total Venture Capital investment. [4]

See where I'm heading? This idea of an ongoing battle between two locations as being the core of the IT / Startup ecosystem belies the fact that a considerable amount of activity is happening outside these two regions.

I love NY and I love SF. And I think good entrepreneurs should do their best to network in both of those scenes. And YES there's a ton of VC in SF / Silicon Valley and a huge amount of activity in NY. But entrepreneurs outside of NY and SF can do just fine too. Ask Tony Hsieh from Zappos (Las Vegas) or Jeff Bezos (Seattle). I say, let these two cities battle it on while everyone else focuses on making their company and their local entrepreneurial scenes better.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAS_Institute_Inc.

[2] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-23/cisco-agrees-to-buy...

[3] http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericsavitz/2012/03/29/millennial...

[4] https://www.pwcmoneytree.com/MTPublic/ns/nav.jsp?page=region

Re: The Ongoing Battle: NY vs. SF Tech Scene

#67

Post by fennecfoxen »

eshvk wrote: post #60
fennecfoxen wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm making comparable salary in NYC, and rent is pretty much in line with San Francisco area standards: $2300/mo studios in desirable areas... the difference in the housing market are these. First, there are more medium-awesome areas to choose from close to town (head to Astoria or East Williamsburg and you might shave $500-1000 off that studio, but you can still catch the N train to get to work and the neighborhood'…

> First, there are more medium-awesome areas to choose from close to town (head to Astoria or East Williamsburg and you might shave $500-1000 off that studio, but you can still catch the N train to get to work and the neighborhood's reasonably cool). Would this be like living across the bay in Oakland or something? The flipside of such a situation would be that you get back home from SF at midnight before the last BA…

This would be like living across the bay in Oakland, but much better. Compared to NYC's subway as a general-purpose transport system, BART's more like a commuter rail line that happens to be underground in downtown San Francisco.

Heck, when the MTA decides to strike (which is occasionally, but less frequently than BART) you can walk to Manhattan from Astoria. Try that from Oakland-to-SOMA.

Re: The Ongoing Battle: NY vs. SF Tech Scene

#68

Post by w1ntermute »

eshvk wrote: post #63
bradleyjg wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYC incorporated its inner suburbs around 1900. So it is physically much much larger than San Fransico. It also means that there is a great variety of neigborhoods of all economic types -- from extremely wealthy (Upper East Side) to quite poor (Melrose section of the Bronx) -- inside city limits. All of which is to say that limiting your statement to "NYC proper" doesn't mean much because that covers a lot of ground.…

Ah, gotcha. Apologies for using that phrase then. I merely meant living in NYC vs say living in New Jersey and making the commute (I knew a lot of people who did that.).

There are plenty of places in Brooklyn where you can live (with 3 or 4 roommates) for less than $1k/month.

Re: The Ongoing Battle: NY vs. SF Tech Scene

#69

Post by w1ntermute »

eshvk wrote: post #61
wheaties wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares? you know what's in NYC that trumps that consideration? The opposite sex in balanced ratios. Finding your life partner far outweighs salary or living expenses any day of the week.

Ehh...I think that can go both ways. I know folks who live a pretty isolated existence in NYC and others who have an active dating life in SF. The problem is that if you get stuck in a tech bubble of friends, you are going to find yourself short changed when it comes to meeting women. (Of course, this all applies to meeting women through friends. I don't do the bar scene so can't really comment on it.)

> Ehh...I think that can go both ways.

But the numbers clearly suggest that NYC is the way to go. The ratio of men in their 20s to women in their 20s is one of the highest of large US cities in SF and one of the lowest in NYC. If you're a guy, NYC is the place to be.

Re: The Ongoing Battle: NY vs. SF Tech Scene

#70

Post by w1ntermute »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #41
w1ntermute wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say both are lower in NYC. Salary is definitely lower, and rent is as well because the infinitely better public transit in NYC gives you more living options that have a short commute.

I'm making comparable salary in NYC, and rent is pretty much in line with San Francisco area standards: $2300/mo studios in desirable areas... the difference in the housing market are these. First, there are more medium-awesome areas to choose from close to town (head to Astoria or East Williamsburg and you might shave $500-1000 off that studio, but you can still catch the N train to get to work and the neighborhood'…

> there are more medium-awesome areas to choose from close to town (head to Astoria or East Williamsburg and you might shave $500-1000 off that studio, but you can still catch the N train to get to work and the neighborhood's reasonably cool).

That's exactly what I'm talking about.

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