I had a good experience with Scott Walker and Ki Ingersoll at Walker Corporate Law. Granted, I have no basis for comparison, so I could very well have overpaid. But for the fixed-rate company conversion they did, their guaranteed rate was in line with the estimates I got elsewhere. I felt like they were quite helpful and attentive, and there were no surprises. What I could not afford was uncertainty in results or budget. By that standard, they delivered.
Ways That Startup Lawyers Overcharge
61–69 of 69 posts
Re: Ways That Startup Lawyers Overcharge
#62"So let’s say a lawyer’s fee is $600 per hour (which is $10 per minute). He speaks to you on the phone for 2 minutes. That just cost you $60. Not $20. That’s a $40 rounding charge. Wow. Another way to think of it is a 200% markup." So what we have is that the base cost of a phone call with your lawyer is always going to be $60. I don't have a problem with that other than obviously it would be nice if the cost were ze…
And, a 2 minute phone call doesn't take just 2 minutes. The lawyer has to pull the file, make notes on the call, set a tickler, then put the file back. Boom, 10 minutes.
Re: Ways That Startup Lawyers Overcharge
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
The cost of training is baked into the price of every product you buy, and legal services is no different At $60/10min, they can take their lumps for training new staff, just like everyone else. If you call tech support, you're not charged extra when there's a trainee doing a ride-along. If you use retail, it doesn't cost more if a trainee cashier is serving you with a supervisor hovering over them. Having your car f…
It's not clear to me whether the issue was being charged an additional $200/hr for a ride-along law student, or being charged $200/hr for a law student's solo work. I agree that charging extra for a ride-along simply doesn't seem fair. However, based on my experience, it's quite possible that the law student researched or wrote solo (billed at $200/hr), and then reported back to the lawyer with a finished product tha…
I think she meant you paying $600/hr, and the lawyer delegating the whole task to the student (=increased chance of errors and bad work for the full price).
Re: Ways That Startup Lawyers Overcharge
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
Were you doing this as an IT consultant? Where you double billing for your time? Were you changing rates without warning?
Good point. On second thought, I think the more important issue is the one 7Figures2Commas raised: If you have a lawyer who does the worst of this stuff, you have the wrong lawyer. With that said, my blood pressure would definitely climb if a client challenged a 6-minute incremental bill for a phone call that was only 2 minutes.
Isn't it "nickel and diming" to charge for that 2 minute call at all in the first place?
Re: Ways That Startup Lawyers Overcharge
#65A lot of these strike me as not only sneaky, but unethical and possibly even illegal. For example, as a software consultant I would feel I were committing fraud were I to bill two clients for the same hour of time. Is there a different consensus around the definition of "billable time" in the legal world that makes this not as bad as it sounds?
Some state bars have decided that lawyers can no longer bill travel time to one client if the time is also spent billing work to another client. However, many states still accept this practice, because on its face, it is perfectly reasonable and ethical. For example: if a client is being billed for time spent traveling on behalf of the client, the lawyer could do nothing while traveling and the time would still be bi…
Billing for idle travel time, but not double-billing travel+work makes sense.
The premise is that travel is wasted time by the lawyer - that he could have used for another client or family if he did not have to travel. If they can bill another client during travel, then it wasn't wasted time for them after all.
Re: Ways That Startup Lawyers Overcharge
#66Whatever you do, never use the attorney recommended by your investors.
can you please elaborate on this?
Re: Ways That Startup Lawyers Overcharge
#67your goto lawyer should be a friend.
Re: Ways That Startup Lawyers Overcharge
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not clear to me whether the issue was being charged an additional $200/hr for a ride-along law student, or being charged $200/hr for a law student's solo work. I agree that charging extra for a ride-along simply doesn't seem fair. However, based on my experience, it's quite possible that the law student researched or wrote solo (billed at $200/hr), and then reported back to the lawyer with a finished product tha…
I think she meant you paying $600/hr, and the lawyer delegating the whole task to the student (=increased chance of errors and bad work for the full price).
That would be a breach of ethical practice (billing the partner rate for work not done by the partner). Generally, the complaint about summer associates is billing for their work at all. Clients don't feel like they should have to pay $200-300/hour for the work of a law student. It's a reasonable complaint, and as a client you should try to get a good deal. That said, the billed rate is a fiction. Most time billed by summer associates is written off by the firm. When they do put together presentable work, the time will be marked down. E.g. some summer associate spent 10 drafting a simple document, the client will be billed for 2-3 hours or however long a junior associate would have taken to do the same task. Generally, of course.
Re: Ways That Startup Lawyers Overcharge
#69[deleted]