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Only 6 people managed to enroll in an insurance plan on Day 1 of Healthcare.gov

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Re: Only 6 people managed to enroll in an insurance plan on Day 1 of Healthcare.gov

#61
post #41
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health insurance is supposed to keep you from going bankrupt when your appendix bursts.

Health insurance "yes", health care "no".

So much of the public debate regarding these issues is terribly confusing and misleading simply due to the wanton disregard for the difference between "health insurance" and "health care". I realize that some of the erroneous usage is just sloppiness, but these two things really aren't interchangeable from a public policy standpoint.

Prime example: the "Affordable Care Act" isn't about health care, it is about health insurance.

Re: Only 6 people managed to enroll in an insurance plan on Day 1 of Healthcare.gov

#62
post #60
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Horse. Shit. I have a perfectly healthy family, a family in which I am notably the least actuarially sound bet. When we started Matasano, we found my wife and (at the time) 7 year old daughter both uninsurable , full stop, at any price, due not to preexisting conditions but instead previous medical examinations that led insurers to believe that at some point in the future the two (coincidentally? female) members of m…

You're in IL right? For some reason the insurance situation in IL seems to be really crappy. They allow(ed) for looking back further in people's medical history than a lot of other states according to wikipedia. That doesn't explain why the new plans are so much more expensive though even in states that previously had restrictions on preexisting conditions and medical history use in underwriting.

Let's again be clear about what I said. "They" (meaning every insurer in IL) did not "look at our medical history". They looked at visits to doctors and (in one case) the emergency room that did not result in diagnoses, and decided to hedge their bets by presuming a preexisting condition that was not indicated in the record.

Another thing that happens --- particularly in California, lest you think this is an IL problem --- is that comparatively minor medical conditions were used as proxies for rare but expensive conditions. For instance, if you were a woman with abnormal cramping, you might be default-denied based on a simple blacklist of uninsurable conditions because insurers were scared that might presage something expensive down the road.

The preexisting condition and recission policies of insurers prior to Obamacare were a national disgrace.

Re: Only 6 people managed to enroll in an insurance plan on Day 1 of Healthcare.gov

#63
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As bi-partisan as you can get"? C'mon, that claim doesn't pass the laugh test. Plenty of legislation has passed both houses of Congress in the last five years with large bi-partisan majorities. Leahy-Smith[1] is just the first one I thought of. As for it being "the Republicans' plan", you're hanging an awful lot on some Republicans' support for an individual mandate (conceived, remember, in opposition to Bill Clinto…

"As bi-partisan as you can get" is intended to be in the context of health care reform. Sure, you can get bi-partisan support for funding veteran death benefits or whatever, but that's not what I'm talking about. The Republicans created the current plan. The most recent Republican candidate for President supported and passed this plan in his home state when he was governor. It's a Republican plan. The Republicans hav…

Ross Douthat has a pretty good summary of at least the egghead Republican health care policy preference and its pros and cons. The whole thing is worth reading.

http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/22/why-not-medicaid...

Short version: Subsidized catastrophic care for real "insurance", and tax-advantaged HSA's for your more predictable medical costs. The former probably still requires something like the existing individual mandate, so it's unfortunate that Republicans seized on that as one of their primary objections to PPACA (an objection that Candidate Obama shared in 2008!)

More practically, a Republican alternative would certainly not have made these catastrophic plans currently being cancelled illegal.

This stuff is not fiddling around the margins: PPACA will only work if it substantially shifts costs from the old and sick (who need comprehensive plans) to the young and healthy (who would typically be fine with catastrophic ones). I don't know why you would expect the GOP to be happy about a wealth transfer like that, particularly when they couldn't expect to extract any leverage from their participation with a Democratic super-majority able to pass whatever it could agree on. All for a bill whose popular support never seriously cracked 50%? I wish Democrats had engaged with President Bush in '05 when he came out of the reelect gate for Social Security reform, rather then declare the whole thing DOA. But I certainly am not shocked they behaved like an opposition.

Re: Only 6 people managed to enroll in an insurance plan on Day 1 of Healthcare.gov

#64
post #36
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goalposts have already been moved to March 31st, 2014 and could be delayed further. What's the rush?

Adverse selection death spiral ( https://www.google.com/search?q=obamacare+Adverse+selection+... ), and moving the goalposts too far forward means insurance companies, which have to submit 2015 plans in the January through March (as I recall; maybe April) period will have very poor data to do that with, very possibly resulting in higher than needed costs. And while I don't think you were addressing this, millions wil…

And while I don't think you were addressing this, millions will lose their now outlawed plans on January 1.

I see this as a huge impending disaster that could turn public sentiment against ACA to the point that it does get repealed. If people get their old plans cancelled and it is very difficult to use healthcare.gov to sign up for a new plan, a lot of people are going to be left in the lurch.

Unfortunately the horse is already out of the barn and into the next county. Maybe by a stroke of luck healthcare.gov will be functioning smoothly at the end of November like Obama and company have said it would. But I'd be willing to bet this will not be the case, given all the problems that project has to deal with.

Even if a massive effort were put underway to stand up call centers so people could navigate the healthcare exchanges over the phone, it would still need to be administered via a computer system, there's little chance a wide-scale paper process could be put in place quickly at this point.

Re: Only 6 people managed to enroll in an insurance plan on Day 1 of Healthcare.gov

#65
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As bi-partisan as you can get" is intended to be in the context of health care reform. Sure, you can get bi-partisan support for funding veteran death benefits or whatever, but that's not what I'm talking about. The Republicans created the current plan. The most recent Republican candidate for President supported and passed this plan in his home state when he was governor. It's a Republican plan. The Republicans hav…

Ross Douthat has a pretty good summary of at least the egghead Republican health care policy preference and its pros and cons. The whole thing is worth reading. http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/22/why-not-medicaid... Short version: Subsidized catastrophic care for real "insurance", and tax-advantaged HSA's for your more predictable medical costs. The former probably still requires something like the existing…

If that article really is a pretty good summary of Republican thinking in this sphere, then I'd say it completely backs up what I've been saying. There's not much substance in that article. It very briefly mentions the subsidized catastrophic insurance you mention, but it doesn't go into much detail at all. Worse, it completely handwaves away the major problem with that model, namely, what happens to people with chronic conditions, by basically saying "oh well, too bad, so sad."

In any case, I don't see how that approach is ultimately very different. Sure, it means people cover a bit more stuff out of pocket, and places a higher burden on sick poor people, but overall it's pretty much the same.

The ultimate question that has to be answered is this: do we, as a society, find it acceptable to allow people to die of treatable illnesses when they can't afford to pay for the treatment? This question has been solidly answered as "no" in the US for some decades now, ever since hospitals were barred from turning away patients in the emergency room. The question now is simply how you accomplish it.

So, back to these subsidized catastrophic plans. You'll have to have a mandate on them! Without a mandate, people who aren't sick won't buy them unless you hold some other threat over their head, such as denying them the ability to obtain insurance if they're already sick.

Unless we're going to let people die, the wealth transfer you describe has to happen in some way. Pre-Obamacare, it works using a de-facto hidden employment tax whereby better-off people pay, in a really convoluted fashion, for the unpaid bills of poor people. With Obamacare, it works by forcing people to get insurance even if they don't want it. The Republican idea discussed in your link is some combination of the two, and exactly what the combination is depends on the exact details.

Obamacare is just about the most free-market solution for universal health coverage you can come up with. It's more free-market than the pre-Obamacare regime, it was proposed by Republicans, and it was passed by Republicans in Massachusetts just a few years prior to becoming law at the national level. And lest we think that those Massachusetts Republicans were some fringe group, they nominated the governor for President! Why should I expect Republicans to object to it for any reason other than being the political party of Crazy?

Re: Only 6 people managed to enroll in an insurance plan on Day 1 of Healthcare.gov

#66
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ross Douthat has a pretty good summary of at least the egghead Republican health care policy preference and its pros and cons. The whole thing is worth reading. http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/22/why-not-medicaid... Short version: Subsidized catastrophic care for real "insurance", and tax-advantaged HSA's for your more predictable medical costs. The former probably still requires something like the existing…

If that article really is a pretty good summary of Republican thinking in this sphere, then I'd say it completely backs up what I've been saying. There's not much substance in that article. It very briefly mentions the subsidized catastrophic insurance you mention, but it doesn't go into much detail at all. Worse, it completely handwaves away the major problem with that model, namely, what happens to people with chro…

"If that article really is a pretty good summary of Republican thinking in this sphere...."

Ross Douthat is one of the New York Times tame "conservatives"; I haven't read that particular piece by him, especially since I'm not familiar with all the proposals by various people on that side so I can't critique it, but I can say you can't denounce our side on the basis of anything he portrays.

"[Obamacare] was passed by Republicans in Massachusetts just a few years prior to becoming law at the national level."

This must be some new definition of the word passed I wasn't previously acquainted with. The quickest refutation is can find is that the lower house has been Democratic since 1955. In 2006, 35 out of the 40 upper house seats were held by Democrats. It has long been a one party state by the time I showed up in 1979, with the occasional RINOs for flavor.

Anyway, you keep claiming things can be "bi-partisan" without Republican votes, a result that can only be achieved by twisting the word beyond recognition.

Re: Only 6 people managed to enroll in an insurance plan on Day 1 of Healthcare.gov

#67
post #64
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adverse selection death spiral ( https://www.google.com/search?q=obamacare+Adverse+selection+... ), and moving the goalposts too far forward means insurance companies, which have to submit 2015 plans in the January through March (as I recall; maybe April) period will have very poor data to do that with, very possibly resulting in higher than needed costs. And while I don't think you were addressing this, millions wil…

And while I don't think you were addressing this, millions will lose their now outlawed plans on January 1. I see this as a huge impending disaster that could turn public sentiment against ACA to the point that it does get repealed. If people get their old plans cancelled and it is very difficult to use healthcare.gov to sign up for a new plan, a lot of people are going to be left in the lurch. Unfortunately the hors…

Shock and awe, anyone?

On the one hand it's around 5% of the population, and unless you need subsidies, you can get policies directly from the insurers, and there are private comparison shopping sites.

On the other hand, most will have to pay more money, often a LOT more, often for worse coverage in ways they most care about, and this small fraction of the population includes some of the most influential. Maybe ... the rules of that seem to be changing, this could in fact be a good test of the recent Angelo Codevilla et. al. modern US ruling and country classes thesis.

Re: Only 6 people managed to enroll in an insurance plan on Day 1 of Healthcare.gov

#68
post #66
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that article really is a pretty good summary of Republican thinking in this sphere, then I'd say it completely backs up what I've been saying. There's not much substance in that article. It very briefly mentions the subsidized catastrophic insurance you mention, but it doesn't go into much detail at all. Worse, it completely handwaves away the major problem with that model, namely, what happens to people with chro…

" If that article really is a pretty good summary of Republican thinking in this sphere.... " Ross Douthat is one of the New York Times tame "conservatives"; I haven't read that particular piece by him, especially since I'm not familiar with all the proposals by various people on that side so I can't critique it, but I can say you can't denounce our side on the basis of anything he portrays. " [Obamacare] was passed…

Mitt Romney signed and endorsed the law. He was later nominated to run for President. If that doesn't count, then I do not know what would. Or is Romney one of those "RINOs"?

Re: Only 6 people managed to enroll in an insurance plan on Day 1 of Healthcare.gov

#69
post #68
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" If that article really is a pretty good summary of Republican thinking in this sphere.... " Ross Douthat is one of the New York Times tame "conservatives"; I haven't read that particular piece by him, especially since I'm not familiar with all the proposals by various people on that side so I can't critique it, but I can say you can't denounce our side on the basis of anything he portrays. " [Obamacare] was passed…

Mitt Romney signed and endorsed the law. He was later nominated to run for President. If that doesn't count, then I do not know what would. Or is Romney one of those "RINOs"?

YES! Romney called himself "severely conservative" at CPAC ... a phrase you'll only find non-conservatives using in that context (e.g. https://www.google.com/search?q=%22severely+conservative%22&... )

You're confounding the current eGOP, as in Establishment GOP, which controls the nominating process, with many of its "completely nuts" elected officials and its base, who've many times in the last few decades declined to (re)elect RINOs, i.e. G. H. W. Bush in 1992, Bob "Tax Collector for the Welfare State" Dole in 1996, McCain, who had a hereditary vicious tempter which he turned on the base after not getting the 2000 nomination.

And Romney, the sort of NE liberal/progressive Republican (granted, an old wing of the party, see e.g. Rockefeller vs. Goldwater in 1964, or Teddy Roosevelt after the previous turn of the century) who could win in overwhelmingly liberal and Democratic Massachusetts. It was the only state in the entire freaking nation to vote for McGovern in 1972 (along with D.C.) after all, "acid, amnesty and abortion", baby!

(Amnesty for Vietnam era draft dodgers, delivered by Carter.)

Re: Only 6 people managed to enroll in an insurance plan on Day 1 of Healthcare.gov

#70
post #69
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mitt Romney signed and endorsed the law. He was later nominated to run for President. If that doesn't count, then I do not know what would. Or is Romney one of those "RINOs"?

YES! Romney called himself "severely conservative" at CPAC ... a phrase you'll only find non-conservatives using in that context (e.g. https://www.google.com/search?q=%22severely+conservative%22&... ) You're confounding the current eGOP, as in Establishment GOP, which controls the nominating process, with many of its "completely nuts" elected officials and its base, who've many times in the last few decades declined…

The Republican nominee for President in 2012 is a RINO and doesn't actually count for the purposes of bipartisanship, got it.

Seriously, what? What sane definition of "Republican" could possibly exclude Mitt Romney? How the hell am I supposed to know who you do and do not include in "Republican" if that's how you're going to be?

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