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NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

theguardian.com

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Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#61

Post by r00fus »

conductor wrote: post #19

This is the top comment on the Reddit thread: "They went after high ranking military officers . They went after members of congress . The Senate and the House - especially on the intelligence committees, and on the armed services committees and judicial. But they went after other ones too. They went after lawyers and law firms . Heaps of lawyers and law firms. They went after judges . One of the judges is now sitting…

The big question is, who controls this security state? The information is being collected, but who's the audience?

And what is their agenda?

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#62

Post by r00fus »

todayiamme wrote: post #11

I quite frankly don't understand why anyone would condemn such acts of espionage. They are not only essential for a nation state to function successfully, but they are also a far superior way for the US to maintain its hegemony as compared to using acts of brute force. Now I do not condone Orwellian spying on the citizens of your own republic, but this really is their job and it's quite impressive that they're this g…

Am I surprised that this covert activity is happening? No. I'm not even surprised by the scale.

What will be interesting to find is who's not in that list that should be.

Who are the puppet masters?

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#63

Post by ceejayoz »

conductor wrote: post #29
ceejayoz wrote: post #6

This is the understood and expected function of the NSA, isn't it? Collecting signals intelligence from foreign sources? Does anyone honestly believe the Germans aren't regularly trying to figure out ways to listen to American officials' communications? I find the NSA's domestic spying to be appalling... but this is the sort of thing everyone knew the NSA was responsible for since its inception.

But we are not at war with everyone, and those countries involved (like Germany, France and Italy) are our partners, economical and military partners. I can accept doing SIGINT on non-friendly countries and organizations but is it correct to spy on your own people and partner countries?

Germany and France do it to us. They're likely just not as talented at it. One way nation states stay allies is knowing, at least to some level, that the public statements match the private.

http://www.france24.com/en/20131024-nsa-france-spying-squarc...

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#64

Post by ceejayoz »

bparsons wrote: post #25
ceejayoz wrote: post #6

This is the understood and expected function of the NSA, isn't it? Collecting signals intelligence from foreign sources? Does anyone honestly believe the Germans aren't regularly trying to figure out ways to listen to American officials' communications? I find the NSA's domestic spying to be appalling... but this is the sort of thing everyone knew the NSA was responsible for since its inception.

These are close, close allies though. We aren't talking about North Korea. We are talking about countries who have deep diplomatic and military ties. The reason why you wouldn't do something like this, is because there was a damn good chance that it would leak out, mortally wounding your relationship with these people. Secondly, the utility of this particular SIGINT program is highly questionable. What is the ROI on…

> Germany is not plotting against the United States. What scenario would they use info for?

Being certain that Germany is not plotting against the United States, I'd guess.

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#65

Post by krapp »

bobwaycott wrote: post #46
krapp wrote: post #5

Yes. And the US is the only country whose intelligence service has ever done anything like this. And newsflash ... we probably bug your embassies too.

I seem to have missed the part where it was suggested that only the US is guilty. If there existed a solid body of evidence to disclose to the world that Germany, France, or Russia was carrying out such actions on a wide scale, that would dominate the press in under a minute. This is the US receiving equal treatment given a preponderance of evidence. This is how the press should be.

I'm not suggesting this isn't news, it certainly is. Just that it's not out of the ordinary for either the NSA or governments in general. It's news in that we got caught.

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#66

Post by guscost »

ceejayoz wrote: post #6

This is the understood and expected function of the NSA, isn't it? Collecting signals intelligence from foreign sources? Does anyone honestly believe the Germans aren't regularly trying to figure out ways to listen to American officials' communications? I find the NSA's domestic spying to be appalling... but this is the sort of thing everyone knew the NSA was responsible for since its inception.

To quote, er, myself: "What does the NSA even do if not this?"

http://guscost.com/2013/06/27/nsa-snoops/

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#67

Post by ceejayoz »

bobwaycott wrote: post #50
ACow_Adonis wrote: post #26

Presumably this will soon be followed up by other ground-breaking journalism pieces such as "Army kills people", "Surgeons perform surgery", and "Garbage collectors stun world by collecting garbage". Irrespective of what one thinks of it (and I do not think favourably of it), how is it surprising that an organisation that is established specifically to spy on people is in fact spying on people?

Perhaps because foreign leaders do not consider tapping the phone lines of our allies to be within the scope of NSA's stated mission "to gain a decision advantage for the Nation and our allies under all circumstances."[1] Or maybe because SigInt is supposed to be working "for intelligence and counterintelligence purposes and to support military operations."[1] They might not get why tapping their phones supports Amer…

How on earth is knowing the internal dealings of foreign governments not "gaining a decision advantage for the Nation"?!

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#68

Post by slashdotaccount »

r00fus wrote: post #61
conductor wrote: post #19

This is the top comment on the Reddit thread: "They went after high ranking military officers . They went after members of congress . The Senate and the House - especially on the intelligence committees, and on the armed services committees and judicial. But they went after other ones too. They went after lawyers and law firms . Heaps of lawyers and law firms. They went after judges . One of the judges is now sitting…

The big question is, who controls this security state? The information is being collected, but who's the audience? And what is their agenda?

Information has become the most valueable thing. Whoever controls it, they surely do have much more power than any elected leader.

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#69

Post by ceejayoz »

jsmcgd wrote: post #40
ceejayoz wrote: post #6

This is the understood and expected function of the NSA, isn't it? Collecting signals intelligence from foreign sources? Does anyone honestly believe the Germans aren't regularly trying to figure out ways to listen to American officials' communications? I find the NSA's domestic spying to be appalling... but this is the sort of thing everyone knew the NSA was responsible for since its inception.

The US public expects the NSA to devote its resources to protecting it from foreign threats, like terrorists, not its allies.

Humans have a long history of fallings-out between allies, at times in very surprising ways. One way of avoiding this is knowing what your ally is up to.

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#70

Post by ceejayoz »

grecy wrote: post #28
ceejayoz wrote: post #6

This is the understood and expected function of the NSA, isn't it? Collecting signals intelligence from foreign sources? Does anyone honestly believe the Germans aren't regularly trying to figure out ways to listen to American officials' communications? I find the NSA's domestic spying to be appalling... but this is the sort of thing everyone knew the NSA was responsible for since its inception.

This of it this way: Do you routinely monitor the calls, emails and communications of your closest friends and relatives? At some point, those people are going to cut you out of their lives for being so disrespectful and immoral.

> Do you routinely monitor the calls, emails and communications of your closest friends and relatives?

No, but I don't do joint military exercises or globally coordinated bank bailouts with them, either. I don't think NATO easily analogized by my Thanksgiving table.

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