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The Man Who Gets The Science Right On 'The Big Bang Theory'

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Re: The Man Who Gets The Science Right On 'The Big Bang Theory'

#61
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of what makes blackface so horrible is the power imbalance that underlies it. In the days of minstrelry, black people were deeply and powerfully unequal in civil society. They had no recourse against the indignity done to them by blackface performance, and it was an indignity forced on them by a more powerful social class. Try replacing nerds with black people in that paragraph and tell me it's at all comparable…

It is comparable. In the way that blackface allowed African Americans to work in venues and productions that they were otherwise prohibited, BBT allows nerds to be the subject of a mainstream sitcom. BBT is not at all empowering the way that "Weird Science," for example, was, and highly-mainstream TV executive Chuck Lorre is of exactly a more powerful class who has allowed nerds to enter into a world where they were…

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Re: The Man Who Gets The Science Right On 'The Big Bang Theory'

#62

What baffles me is that David Salzberg is a professor works tirelessly to get the science correct on BBT, and yet this gentleman was unable to correct the incredible, mind-bogglingly bad episode "The Tenure Turbulence", where every possible aspect of tenure appears to come from some alternate universe unrelated to Earth. This episode is so far beyond wrong I don't know where to start. David knows how tenure works: in…

I thought the same of the hacking scenes in Swordfish... then I realised that the movie isn't meant for me. It was meant for a mainstream audience that has no idea what hacking is - and instead they get a visual representation of 'hard, technical'. I imagine the same thing goes with that episode - I haven't seen it, but I'm guessing that tenure was just used as a mere plot device rather than a topic to explore.

Re: The Man Who Gets The Science Right On 'The Big Bang Theory'

#63
post #14
post #3

As an aside, I was watching BBT just yesterday (on a long plane ride with limited entertainment options) and I was reminded how uncomfortably awkward it makes me feel. In short, the core problem is that the characters are not sympathetic -- you're meant to laugh at them, not with them, to say nothing of the show's terribly backwards gender roles. This essay was quite popular a while back and summarizes all this and m…

> Can we at least agree that laugh tracks are awful, even on otherwise-phenomenal shows (Seinfeld)? No. Multi-camera sitcoms with live audiences are very, very different in writing, tone, and end product to single camera comedies. They both serve different purposes. Shooting a sitcom in front of a studio audience radically alters the pacing, the way jokes are told, and the setup (you're inherently constrained to fewe…

>Now, I'm not talking about canned laughter. I think I can agree that adding laughter in post is bad. And Big Bang Theory is particularly guilty of 'sweetening' live audience reaction, meaning jokes that shouldn't be that funny often have huge waves of laughter. I don't appreciate that.

You are looking at it wrong. Do you know why the laughter is edited in post? You agreed that they film in front of a live audience (something most BBT bashers still can't accept from personal observations).

Now, one scene, multiple takes. The take that makes it into the show might have been the fifth one of the day. Of course the laughter that take produced is nowhere near as the initial response to the joke. So, you edit the laughter in post to make it fit. That has got nothing to do with "sweetening" anything. Unless you would rather they just use the laughter form the actual take, even though it was the 12th attempt and after seeing the joke 12 times the audience couldn't muster up so much as a snicker.

Re: The Man Who Gets The Science Right On 'The Big Bang Theory'

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Edit 2: Can we at least agree that laugh tracks are awful, even on otherwise-phenomenal shows (Seinfeld)? BBT does not use a laugh track.

You are right that its not canned laughter, but a laugh track can more generally refer to a separate track for the audience's laughter. This can be edited to compensate for jokes that require repeated takes or have its level's adjusted just like the rest of the sound in the show. I don't watch the show, so I can't say for sure, but its possible that the way the laugh track is mixed makes it more obvious than other sh…

>but its possible that the way the laugh track is mixed makes it more obvious than other shows, such as 90s sitcoms.

It isn't. It is exactly the same as any other sitcom that was filmed in front of a live audience. No better, no worse.

It is just that some people won't give BBT a pass on that usage.

And in a dramatic twist, most people who hate BBT loooooooooove The IT crowd. Somehow I have never heard any of those fans to criticize them for using a laugh track. Weird right? Cause that show does not only use one, it is completely canned laughter as they do not film in front of an audience. Just think what the BBT bashers would have to say if BBT did it like that and The IT crowd would use a live audience. They would go mental over this.

Re: The Man Who Gets The Science Right On 'The Big Bang Theory'

#65

The Big Bang Theory is a horrible piece of television. It's so horribly cliched that I feel somewhat insulted that it perpetuates the overused stereotypes that nerds are socially awkward people who are afraid of girls, love Star Trek, wear thick-rimmed glasses, idolise Stephen Hawking and have bad people skills. Good on them for having science consultants to get the science part of the show right, but the show is unc…

Us people who are "stereotyped" by this show think it's very funny, and don't really need you to be the white knight that saves us from a terrible Hollywood sitcom. If there's anything offensive here, it's your condescending attitude.

Did you similarly rail on "Sex in the City" for not realistically portraying women and sexuality?

Re: The Man Who Gets The Science Right On 'The Big Bang Theory'

#66
post #65

The Big Bang Theory is a horrible piece of television. It's so horribly cliched that I feel somewhat insulted that it perpetuates the overused stereotypes that nerds are socially awkward people who are afraid of girls, love Star Trek, wear thick-rimmed glasses, idolise Stephen Hawking and have bad people skills. Good on them for having science consultants to get the science part of the show right, but the show is unc…

Us people who are "stereotyped" by this show think it's very funny, and don't really need you to be the white knight that saves us from a terrible Hollywood sitcom. If there's anything offensive here, it's your condescending attitude. Did you similarly rail on "Sex in the City" for not realistically portraying women and sexuality?

What exactly is funny about Big Bang Theory? I'm not trying to be a "white knight" here. I was giving an opinion on a show that I know many people dislike due to its over-the-top and unfunny stereotype perpetuating...

I'm sorry if you think I am being condescending, but not once did I insult or single out any particular individual, I called out a show which is definitely not funny for being completely unoriginal. I didn't call out people that watch the show, if you watch it and like it, then good for you, I'm not saying you are a bad person or any less of a person for doing so.

Your comment is condescending if you want to get specific. You've singled me out for having an opinion on a show you share a different opinion on. Who's the bad guy here? Keep things civil buddy, stop trying to bait me, it won't work. Run along now.

Re: The Man Who Gets The Science Right On 'The Big Bang Theory'

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chuck Lorre, the producer for the show, is really ticked off at people who say that BBT has a laugh track, and has been very adamant that it does not. Good for him. The television producer can split hairs about terms that have different industry and layman uses all he wants. Either way, there is still studio audience laughter embedded in the show's audio. Dude should be well aware that home viewers can disagree with…

I'm sorry, but this isn't "layman use" of the term laugh track: it is simply wrong. A laugh track is a separately recorded or constructed track of laughter that didn't exist when the show was being shot. Calling a live studio audience a "laugh track" is an absurd black-is-white abuse of the term. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laugh_track The laugh track has a long and sordid history in US television recording, and Lor…

I don't want to get into linguistics wankery about when a definition counts, but I really don't think it's as absolute as you're portraying it. Certainly not if have to point me to wikipedia to refute the way it is often used in by people who don't know nor care about the canned/audience distinction.

On top of that, you seem to be banking on the idea I won't actually click your link, from the first paragraph:

    In some productions the laughter is a live audience response; 
    in the U.S., the term usually implies artificial laughter (canned 
    laughter or fake laughter) made to be inserted into the show.
That's an awful lot of ambiguity for such a "black-is-white abuse of the term"

Re: The Man Who Gets The Science Right On 'The Big Bang Theory'

#68
post #46
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do people really think, even for a second, that CBS developed a primetime network show whose jokes were targeted specifically to Caltech physics PhD students? Or even to self-identified nerds? Yes, and it named it The Big Band Theory. I mean seriously, did you really think, ever for a second, that this wasn't at attempt to hit the target group of (not Caltech PhD students of course) the "geek/nerd crowd" -- a group…

Right. You're the center of the universe. And "Gilligan's Island" was made for people stranded on desert islands. "Taxi" targeted that coveted taxi driver demographic. "That 70s Show" targeted time-travelling teenagers from the 1970s. "Scrubs" was written for doctors. Remember how upset all the doctors were when Scrubs joked about doctor stereotypes? No? Likewise "Frasier" was for effete psychiatrists, "Cheers" for b…

>Right. You're the center of the universe

No; but you are at the center of a strawman.

Didn't the fact that I already wrote that "Twilight is targeted at teenage girls" stop you from writing all those dreadful "counter-examples" (as if I believed that the fictual setting of a show automatically and necesarrily determines the target audience?)

If I followed the strawman logic you accuse me of having, I'd have said "Twilight is targeted at vampires and girls having affairs with them". I did not.

As for your rude question, no, I'm just at the center of a big enough and profitable demographic -- geeks, semi-geeks, etc that have come out of the woodwork ever since the mid-nineties/early oughts, and for which tons of media content is produced, from J. Abraham's and Josh Whedon's stuff, to the nth comic book movie and down to Kevin Smith's Comic Book Men TV series.

The "counter-examples" that you provide, are workplaces and professions, that have served as generic backdrops for drama for ages. They are not about a specific demographic, and their content and references are not targeted at them. On a medical drama, for example, the content is all about relationships, tension, love affairs, etc, not the practice of medicine. They characters might as well be lawyers and the show would still work, whereas in BBT the content is all about the geek references, and nothing is generic and universal.

You even seem unaware of the fact that shows can be targeted a specific demographic, like, say, Friends created for 20-somethings, or Sex and The City created for 30+ women.

Re: The Man Who Gets The Science Right On 'The Big Bang Theory'

#69
post #21

The show gets some interesting aspects of physics culture right. For example, there's the chauvinism of theorists over experimentalists. I was a bit surprised by this when I first encountered it, but I soon came to realize it's probably motivated by jealously and rejection. Experimentalists operate under the constraint of having to realize a test of one theory and stick with that same theory for months or years at a…

I guess it is a counter-reaction to Einstein not getting more than one Nobel prize for all he did.

Back then, experimental physics was perceived as the 'real' physics, and guys like Einstein were 'mathematicians' meddling with physics.

Source: Einstein and Feynman biographies.

Re: The Man Who Gets The Science Right On 'The Big Bang Theory'

#70
post #68
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. You're the center of the universe. And "Gilligan's Island" was made for people stranded on desert islands. "Taxi" targeted that coveted taxi driver demographic. "That 70s Show" targeted time-travelling teenagers from the 1970s. "Scrubs" was written for doctors. Remember how upset all the doctors were when Scrubs joked about doctor stereotypes? No? Likewise "Frasier" was for effete psychiatrists, "Cheers" for b…

> Right. You're the center of the universe No; but you are at the center of a strawman. Didn't the fact that I already wrote that "Twilight is targeted at teenage girls" stop you from writing all those dreadful "counter-examples" (as if I believed that the fictual setting of a show automatically and necesarrily determines the target audience?) If I followed the strawman logic you accuse me of having, I'd have said "T…

> Didn't the fact that I already wrote that "Twilight is targeted at teenage girls" stop you from writing all those dreadful "counter-examples"

No, merely reference Twilight is not enough because in majority of cases, a show about a certain type of characters is not necessarily targeted to that audience.

The gist of your argument is that since (1) geeks are more prominent in pop culture lately, (2) BBT is a comedy about geeks, then it follows that (3) BBT must be a show for geeks. Certainly that's possible, but where's the evidence? Another possibility is that the show is targeted towards people who know a geek (which is a much larger audience... essentially everyone).

> "in BBT the content is all about the geek references, and nothing is generic and universal."

I disagree. BBT is a comedy, and the content is the jokes, 99% of which, you don't actually have to be a geek to get (it certainly helps if you know a geek or are familiar with the geek stereotype).

Yes, BBT includes geek references. So what? Excuse the "dreadful counter-examples", but ER included medical references, MASH included military references, etc. That's required by concept of the show.

I think the most damning evidence against your claim is BBT's audience. It's a wildly successful show, yet so many self-identified geeks on Internet have problems with it (mainly the ones who think it should be a show just for them. Hmm.) So the burden of proof that it's actually a show specifically for geeks (but just happens to appeal to non-geeks) is on you. And you presented no evidence.

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