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E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

forbes.com

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Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#61

Post by joezydeco »

HPLovecraft wrote: post #53
seiji wrote: post #5

His presentation also featured pictures he took of many NY police's personal cars with deliberately obscured license plates so they can't be automatically read (and other features like illegally too-tinted windows, etc). *edit: found the presentation at https://www.defcon.org/html/links/dc-archives/dc-21-archive....

dumb question maybe -- what does he mean by when he says the license is "salted" is this referring to road salt?

Yes. it seems to refer to a plate heavily corroded with road deicing salt. A Florida plate would almost never have this problem... =)

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#62

Post by Avenger42 »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #29

As many have stated, this isn't news. There are all sorts of good and proper uses of toll-tags that aren't collecting tolls. There has never been any effort to hide that, nor should there be. The thing I have always been disturbed by WRT toll-tags is that toll-collecting entities flatly refuse to sell one that isn't attached to a person or a vehicle. There are opportunities for profit that have been ignored[1], and I…

> There are all sorts of good and proper uses of toll-tags that aren't collecting tolls. There has never been any effort to hide that, nor should there be.

That conflicts somewhat with the article:

> Notably, the fact that E-ZPasses will be used as a tracking device outside of toll payment, is not disclosed anywhere that I could see in the terms and conditions.

I'm fine with you doing whatever you disclose you're going to be doing, even if it seems invasive, but the key there is the disclosure.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#63

Post by maratd »

diminoten wrote: post #44
forgotAgain wrote: post #37

I have to disagree with those who say this isn't news. It was news to me and will, I believe, be news to most others as well. The only time before this that I heard about using EZ pass for anything other than tolls was a few years ago when I read about some feasibility work on the concept of traffic flow optimization being done around Ithaca, NY. I do wonder why they haven't been used yet to track speeding violations…

Why are you against having your car tracked? You're in public, aren't you? Why do you think you have a right to privacy in public?

It's not a right, but a desire and a desire that can be realized with simple planning. Is there some reason a person shouldn't implement methods that limit exposure?

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#64

Post by Retric »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #55
refurb wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason they link a tag to a car is because fees vary by vehicle type (number of axles). If the tags weren't linked to a vehicle, a commercial truck driver could simply buy a tag for a car and pay a whole lot less in tolls.

No, they couldn't because it would be immediately obvious from the camera footage. Photos are always taken, even when a tag is registered.

But nobody looks at that footage 99% of the time. Reolistically the only way to do prepaid tags it to bill the maximum amount as truckers would happily say use a car the first time and then use the rest of the cash on the semi unless they checked every time.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#65

Post by tdfx »

blah32497 wrote: post #51
diminoten wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you against having your car tracked? You're in public, aren't you? Why do you think you have a right to privacy in public?

I think this is a perfectly legitimate question. What is the parent post genuinely concerned about? (assuming he's not hauling drugs)

Your argument is similar to the "why are you scared if you've got nothing to hide?" response to the NSA scandal. According to society, we all should be perfect citizens whose outward lives perfectly reflect our inward, private thoughts and actions. But we're not, and evidence to the contrary can be used against us.

But, for the sake of argument, let's say you are perfect. You don't exceed the speed limit, you don't haul drugs. But one of your elected officials really enjoys visiting his secret girlfriend on Sunday evenings. Do you still trust him to vote objectively in every circumstance?

True, I can't see XYZ agency using their records to threaten elected officials, either. But I doubt anyone was worried that promoting an egotistical bureaucrat in the Bureau of Investigation in the early 1900s would ever lead to the reign of J. Edgar Hoover. The whole point is that these things aren't a big deal on their own -- it's the slippery slope concept that should concern you.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#66

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

forgotAgain wrote: post #37

I have to disagree with those who say this isn't news. It was news to me and will, I believe, be news to most others as well. The only time before this that I heard about using EZ pass for anything other than tolls was a few years ago when I read about some feasibility work on the concept of traffic flow optimization being done around Ithaca, NY. I do wonder why they haven't been used yet to track speeding violations…

>I have to disagree with those who say this isn't news.

It was never kept a secret in Houston that toll-tags were used to collect data for the real-time traffic map, this system is decades old. http://traffic.houstontranstar.org/aviinfo/avi-tech.html

>EZ passes are supposed to be used in one car only so it can't be lack of ability to isolate the user that's stopping it.

A car may have more than one user.

>For years I've been keeping my EZ pass in a static electricity bag when I'm not anticipating going through tolls. I'll definitely continue to do so. At least until it becomes illegal.

Try an Altoids Tin instead.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#67

Post by drjesusphd »

joezydeco wrote: post #39

Wait until people discover your FM car radio also leaks information. Besides the leaky iPod/SatRadio transmitters, the unit itself gives away the station frequency from the internal oscillator. There's a company already sniffing radios on the road to determine listener demographics among other things. http://masscommandme.wordpress.com/2010/12/02/mobiltraks-lis...

Just to clarify, this is not an intentional design feature. Any reciever is necessarily a transmitter due to the physics itself.

The UK has been using this for a while to crack down on TV liscences.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#68

Post by mrb »

In California, our toll transponders (FasTrak) are spuriously read at the LAX airport, merely for tracking reasons, not for billing.

Interesting reverse-engineering of FasTrak transponders in 2008: http://rdist.root.org/2008/08/07/fastrak-talk-summary-and-sl...

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#70

Post by joezydeco »

drjesusphd wrote: post #67
joezydeco wrote: post #39

Wait until people discover your FM car radio also leaks information. Besides the leaky iPod/SatRadio transmitters, the unit itself gives away the station frequency from the internal oscillator. There's a company already sniffing radios on the road to determine listener demographics among other things. http://masscommandme.wordpress.com/2010/12/02/mobiltraks-lis...

Just to clarify, this is not an intentional design feature. Any reciever is necessarily a transmitter due to the physics itself. The UK has been using this for a while to crack down on TV liscences.

I'm skeptical about the License Van thing...

"BBC admits that TV detector vans only work because Britons believe they do"

http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/10/31/bbc-admits-that-tv-...

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