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AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

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Re: AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As somebody who is learning electronics using Arduino right now, I almost agree with you. WARNING: The first time I accidentally forgot to put a resistor in front of an LED and sent 50mA to one which was rated at 20mA, I expected it to fizzle and cut out like a regular incandescent light bulb does in my house. When it literally exploded and the plastic covering went flying through the room, I was very very glad it di…

Yes this is always 'interesting'. I'd personally suggest that everyone at least stuffs the following components over a 30v DC 5 amp supply (in a fume cupboard with goggles on) at least once just so you know when to wince: electrolytic capacitor reverse polarised, 1 ohm resistor, generic npn transistor (base-emitter forward biased), various LEDs, signal diodes. you learn to double check your circuits first then :)

What about getting your H-bridges the wrong way around and the smoke hitting the ceiling... the night before your final project is due?

Re: AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

#62
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That usually doesn't help as a large source of the problematic parasitics is contact between the part's leads and the 'grippers' inside the breadboard. Lead diameter, corrosion, 'gripper' spring strength, etc all come into play there.

So if it's so random that you can't reliably measure it because it changes every time you plug and unplug the same pin (let alone different pin diameters), how can software hope to model it?

I realize I'm posting late but its modeled the same way you model tolerances everywhere else.

There is no such thing as a 1K resistor as in 1000.000 ohms. At least not unless you pay an insane amount of money. What there is, is a random-ish spectrum of values where sorted into EIA "preferred value" bins, 10% tolerance resistors that are too high to fit in the EIA E12 bin of 820 ohms, but too low to fit in the EIA E12 bin of 1200 ohms, are by definition dropped into the EIA E12 bin for "1K" resistors.

So a lot of (good) modeling work is screwing around with placing the "wrong" value resistors, simulating, and seeing what happens. So you've got a budget constraint such that you'd like to use cheap 10% resistors. An a theoretical equation said 1063.237 ohms is just right. So you'd superficially think simulating a 1K resistor is good enough, but you really need to simulate what happens when you insert a perfect 820 or a perfect 1200... Will it explode and kill people, or merely clip and distort into a guaranteed product return and/or unhappy customer? In which case its time to start fighting with the boss to spend some extra nickles (times millions of units) to install 5% or 1% resistors. Or maybe it doesn't matter and you get to save some dough.

What makes it even more exciting is quite a few performance characteristics depend on multiple devices. You're not building a little small signal RF amp with one real world random resistor in the bias ckt and every other component is theoretically perfect. No, both your base bias resistors and collector resistor and transistor beta and everything else is "fuzzy".

There exist semi-automated tools to fuzz-n-sim for the pros... this will only confuse the heck out of the noobs so its not often discussed.

Imagine if when you wrote code, you didn't really write "if-then" and "do-while" and "for-loop" but really wrote things that are within 10% of a "do-while" almost all the time, but its never really perfect. And that's what EE work is like. Fun, eh?

Re: AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

#63
post #47

Reminds me of an old idea I had a couple years back. I assume it's a silly idea driven primarily by my own ignorance of these tools and EE in general, but it seemed fun. The idea was to start out with some software similar to this. Something visually impressive to keep it interesting for beginners, but technically sound to make it useful to those who know what they're doing. It would be open source, internet connecte…

http://www.circuits.io/

Re: AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

#64
post #47

Reminds me of an old idea I had a couple years back. I assume it's a silly idea driven primarily by my own ignorance of these tools and EE in general, but it seemed fun. The idea was to start out with some software similar to this. Something visually impressive to keep it interesting for beginners, but technically sound to make it useful to those who know what they're doing. It would be open source, internet connecte…

http://www.circuits.io/

http://upverter.com

Not just for kids anymore.

Re: AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LTspice [0] is an excellent (and might I add free) SPICE simulator. Linear includes proper models of the majority of their chip lineup, including LED drivers. Their power supply IC models are also excellent. You can simulate a full LED driver circuit and a whole lot more with LTspice. TI also has a similar SPICE simulator [1], but it's not nearly as good, and its simulations are much slower and a bit more unreliable.…

Thanks, that helps a lot! Giving it a shot right now. How long should it take to make a high-power (3A+ @ 3V, buck-boost IC) LED driver, very approximately?

If by "make" you mean create the schematic in LTspice and simulate it, then I would guess about an hour or two (mostly because this might be your first time using LTspice). If Linear has a part that already meets those requirements, it should be a very straight forward affair.

Re: AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

#66
post #20

Is this based on Fritzing (fritzing.org)?

Nope, just a non-free clone with a marketing budget. I must say I'm not sure how to feel watching the maker and hacker culture I love so much having its open heart slowly ripped out.

To be honest, I lost faith in maker culture and open hardware in general around the time MakerBot went closed hardware - not because of MakerBot themselves, but because of the way their critics were treated.

MakerBot themselves base their designs heavily on both the open hardware RepRap and open designs by other commercial manufacturers, and their head honch Bre Pettis was a big proponent of open hardware and maker culture - even publicly humiliating newbies to the community on his blog for failing to the files associated with their designs, insinuating that they were somehow undermining the maker community. [1] (In reality, they were trying to but couldn't figure out how because they used their PCB house's free proprietary software which couldn't export - we're talking a tiny hobby operation here.)

Then he went against the very principles he publicly shamed others for failing to follow and turned MakerBot's hardware and software proprietary in order to make more money.[2][3] All the people who politely but firmly criticised him for failing to live up to the same standards he held were accused of using "language similar to that we usually hear from people who blow things up" and "fundamentalism" by another maker[4]. This was linked supportively by one of the most prominent companies, Adafruit.[5] Anyone who suggested that comparing other members of the community to terrorists was incredibly inflammatory itself, or linked Bre Pettis' own views on others who took open hardware closed, was labelled a "troll" and had their comments deleted. People who correctly figured out that MakerBot was taking their hardware closed based on Bre's non-denial denial[6] were called liars and accused of spreading rumours. Remember, Bre's own public humiliation of newbies with much less power than him didn't get this kind of criticism.

So yeah. I'm basically done with open hardware and the maker community. It looks like a way of suckering people into doing big businesses' work for them and then labelling them terrorists when they ask said businesses to uphold their end of the bargain. I guess it's profitable for some though.[7]

[1] http://www.makerbot.com/blog/2010/03/25/open-source-ethics-a...

[2] http://www.hoektronics.com/2012/09/21/makerbot-and-open-sour...

[3] http://openalia.wordpress.com/2012/09/22/the-definitive-make...

[4] http://www.tigoe.net/blog/category/open-innovation/408/

[5] http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2012/09/21/in-defense-of-open-s...

[6] http://www.makerbot.com/blog/2012/09/20/fixing-misinformatio...

[7] http://allthingsd.com/20130619/makerbot-sells-to-stratasys-f...

Re: AutoDesk Releases An Electronics Simulator Called 123D Circuits

#67

I'd kill for an app like this that would help teach you electronics at the same time. I've wanted to start doing some robotics stuff, but haven't found much in terms of useful learning resources outside of just buying a full university textbook and hoping for the best.

Funny you should mention that, I've been slowly working on this idea for a circuit-sim that basically teaches you electronics, to be eventually complemented with video-lectures which I keep putting off due to school and a hunger for other projects. So yeah, the Autodesk news was kinda depressing, but really, that just means I'm going to focus more on the teaching end and in adding my own personal style to it through…

That looks awesome, I am definitely going to check it out.
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