How Technology Is Destroying Jobs • Hacker News Board

Re: How Technology Is Destroying Jobs

#61

Post by hardwaresofton » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 8:13 PM UTC

loup-vaillant wrote: post #52

hardwaresofton wrote: post #39

While I didn't quite read this article (I skimmed), I talk (read argue) about this subject very often with some friends. I think in the end, the inventor of a technology is somewhat responsible for figuring out what the people he/she will displace can do. For example, if I'm about to put a whole industry out of work ('disrupt'ing it), I think it would be reasonably responsible for me to offer training or some kind of…

You're assuming that displaced people should, or need to, work. Also, that they can work. I'd say, not necessarily. Think about the impending disappearance of professional driving. Automation may not be total, but it will probably reach a point where a single human for 50+ trucks is enough (just have the truck communicate with its command centre). So basically, the professional driving profession will likely shrink b…

Right, but an engineer/creator of such a service that realizes the impact of that technological advancement should at least give forethought to what will come about as a result.

If you're going to make an atomic bomb, you should consider the devastation it might cost. While this ISN'T an atomic bomb, if you're going to so heavily disrupt a field such that many people will find themselves out of work, at least giving those people some thought seems to be the responsible choice.

On your last point, societies are always ill-equipped to deal with rapid progress. In fact most of it is dismissed until it can't be ignored. However, the problem of introducing change in a way that will not hurt/severely degrade the life quality of large parts of society is worth tackling -- I don't think people should just throw care to the wind and disrupt areas in which displaced employees are unlikely to be able to bounce back.

Not that you shouldn't release the technology, just that some thought should be given to the effects of your innovation.

Re: How Technology Is Destroying Jobs

#62

Post by vinceguidry » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 8:34 PM UTC

jiggy2011 wrote: post #57

vinceguidry wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society simply isn't ready for such a solution. I floated the idea to my dad last week, and his reaction was instructive. There's just no convincing "Main Street" that paying people to sit around and do nothing could possibly benefit society. It's a political non-starter.

Is that not what we already do through welfare/benefit payments? Plus the administration costs of such a system. One solution would be a negative income tax, where you take some threshold X and basically cut low income people a cheque for (X - Income) / Y where Y is something like 2. That way there is never a financial incentive not to work as every $ you earn will make you at least $0.50 better off than you were bef…

> Is that not what we already do through welfare/benefit payments?

Yep.

The main problem here is that most people don't understand incentives and what motivates them. They think everyone's just out to work as little as possible. Selling a negative income tax or basic income to the public, or any system where you provide anyone with "three hots and a cot," as my father put it, is impossible, regardless of how much we need it. According to them, we'd be irreparably damaging the social fabric.

Re: How Technology Is Destroying Jobs

#63

Post by malandrew » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 9:00 PM UTC

rondon wrote: post #33

Zigurd wrote: post #30

While you cannot view technology as some kind of force of nature, immune to ethics, blaming the misery of joblessness on technology is beside the point. When is the last time the minimum wage was raised? The last time the work week shortened? Those laws are in place because of technology eliminating human labor. Those legal changes were the solution to a problem technology created. But they have not been updated whil…

If you raise the US Minimum wage to $20 an hour you will immediately see people move their companies to Mexico,China,etc.. So that will only make the problem worse. Instead of making $10 an hour those employees will be making $0.

Some maybe, but such reports will be grossly over exaggerated and a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of employment in the US.

The truth is that much of the manufacturing here in the US is already largely automated, and many of the few jobs left in manufacturing are a few higher skill positions that probably pay an hourly wage near or above $20 already. Any job that's going to be eliminated is going to be eliminated in the next few years whether you raise the minimum wage or not. Instead this argument against a higher minimum wage means that every worker who job cannot be outsourced because it is some service industry job for example is being held down financially on account of the country losing jobs that might be automated eventually anyway.

On top of that a $20 minimum wage would also probably create much more demand by many of those who today are earning less than $20 per day.

Re: How Technology Is Destroying Jobs

#64

Post by Kudzu_Bob » Sun, Sep 08, 2013, 2:21 AM UTC

raspasov wrote: post #17

Kudzu_Bob wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, people of average and below-average intelligence are screwed.

Everyone can choose the path of self-improvement and self-education which is becoming more and more widely accessible due to cheap technology and Internet access. Viewing people as "below average" or "above average" is a very pre-deterministic way of evaluating any person's potential :).

Do you mean that if I choose the path of self-improvement and self-education, then I could realistically aspire to become a male cover model, even though I'm not especially handsome, or play for the Knicks, despite being a mere five-foot-eight? Whoa, that must be some path.