I think everyone is missing the most important point, the one that history teaches. The enormous power surveillance brings (not the least being the fact that a little "creative editing", ala the Nazis, will allow to become both interesting and guilty of ). With that much power, even if is not happening now, it will happen sooner or later; and then it will be too late!
More on the NSA Commandeering the Internet
61–66 of 66 posts
Re: More on the NSA Commandeering the Internet
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't look at the "Family Values" lobby, they get lip service but no serious favorable actions in return for their votes. One reason they're fading away (the main other one is that Carter's attacks on their schools are a distant memory). The concept of the applying the lessons of the 2nd Amendment lobby was extensively discussed here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6185138 Here's the contents of my top comment,…
Martin Luther King was spied on and blackmailed by the FBI. It's a bit dated, but a good place to start. http://news.firedoglake.com/2013/01/21/the-fbi-wrote-a-lette...
Oh, there's a whole bunch of pre-Church Committee, especially J. Edgar Hoover (died a few years before the former) ... incidents, but the current authorities can and will say they aren't like those abusive folks 4 decades ago.
And in e.g. the case of MLK they were famously unsuccessful. I claim you need atrocities committed upon "victims most will empathize with"; the latter excludes "rioting hippies" and the like, especially after the Weather Underground and company started bombing and killing people.
E.g. I was just past the threshold of becoming politically aware when this happened: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_Hall_bombing and it shocked and appalled the nation.
Re: More on the NSA Commandeering the Internet
#63> To be fair, we don't know if the government can actually convict someone of closing a business. The Thirteenth Amendment makes it pretty clear you can't force a person to work, unless they've been convicted of a crime. There may be an argument that he violated the NSL, but that's not the same thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_Un...
I really wonder if that would directly apply. The most relevant case law I'm familiar with didn't use it, although that was complicated by the Feds requiring state government agents to do things: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printz_v._United_States
Re: More on the NSA Commandeering the Internet
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
No way. You can be compelled by the courts to actively perpetuate a lie? I don't think so. The deal with the warrant canary is the guy signs a new message every (day?), actively affirming that he hasn't been served with any such secret warrants. What if he gets tired of it? Same with running the business? You can't be compelled to work forever, neither for free or otherwise.
> No way. You can be compelled by the courts to actively perpetuate a lie? I don't think so. Sure you can. For one, what about people pleading guilty, when they are not, just because their case looks bad and they want to avoid a trial that can put then in jail for decades and get a plea bargain? That's actually encouraged by the DAs.
I hadn't considered that at all. You are right, I have heard of this before. That one is even under oath.
Re: More on the NSA Commandeering the Internet
#65I feel like we've identified this problem to death. I think now the real question is, as an internet community, what are we going to do about it? Are we going to build something that 'routes around' this? Are we going to protest? Or are we just going to keep identifying the problem and complaining about it on Twitter? I'm not saying that I'm not one of those people too - I'm just saying we need to start thinking abou…
It seems to me that the only way to bring about real policy change in the US is to organize politically. If you can deliver votes in November, then you can get things done. Part of the problem is that other than the EFF and ACLU, there isn't really a "privacy lobby" in the US. And neither of these organizations are effective in shaping election outcomes. What is needed is something like the 2nd-ammendment lobby or th…
I think 2A/RKBA, drugs (== black/latino community, generally; white people rarely go to prison for drugs and white/asian communities aren't torn apart by the drug war), and maybe people with garden-variety secrets (cheating on a spouse, cheating on taxes, looking at questionable porn, etc.) are the strongest natural allies in terms of turning out the votes. These are pretty evenly split left/right.
Funding could be from cloud providers who are getting screwed; even Google probably loses a marginal $100mm due to this issue, so for them funding a PAC with $25mm would be a rational choice. Plus, being anti-NSA is a great recruiting/retention thing for employees, so any worthwhile tech company could probably justify PAC support just as an HR and marketing expense.
You could probably get the tea party side, and civil libertarians in general, for free, but they're not a meaningful political bloc. The problem is at least some of the tea party side would be pro-military and might view support of NSA as supporting the military.
Re: More on the NSA Commandeering the Internet
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Martin Luther King was spied on and blackmailed by the FBI. It's a bit dated, but a good place to start. http://news.firedoglake.com/2013/01/21/the-fbi-wrote-a-lette...
Oh, there's a whole bunch of pre-Church Committee, especially J. Edgar Hoover (died a few years before the former) ... incidents, but the current authorities can and will say they aren't like those abusive folks 4 decades ago. And in e.g. the case of MLK they were famously unsuccessful. I claim you need atrocities committed upon "victims most will empathize with"; the latter excludes "rioting hippies" and the like, e…
It's interesting what external events are formative. For me, it was the SSC being cancelled (thus, wanting to be in private business and then funding science vs. government-funded big science at risk always to Congress), the MOVE bombing in a nearby city (learning that even a black mayor can be racist, as well as incompetent), and Challenger ("perfect systems aren't", kind of the Rumsfeld thing).