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Someone's stealing our identity on Apple's App Store

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Re: Someone's stealing our identity on Apple's App Store

#61

Post by dhimes »

honzzz wrote: post #52
dhimes wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It strikes me as absolutely insane that Apple doesn't have a way to verify that the submitter of an app is from the company that submitted the app before. This seems like a no-brainer. Like the OP, I would also go to Apple in this case and be absolutely furious if they didn't respond. IANAL, but I would be pretty surprised if there wasn't some recourse towards Apple for this. If I bring counterfeit 'Tide' (a laundry…

IMHO the store has no way of reliably determining whether the 'Tide' you bring is fake or not (that's what courts are for) and therefore should not be responsible. Generally I understand your anger but I think that the concept of 3rd party responsibility is very dangerous and can create more damage than the fraud it is trying to prevent. If we make companies liable for actions of their clients they will preventively…

All it takes is a phone call. Certainly there is an account number where the money goes or some way to authenticate. I'm actually a little incredulous that Apple didn't try that- to the point of actually wondering if we are getting the whole story here.

I remember this being a big deal a while back in a slightly different way: bootleg hair products. There is pretty good money in ripping off 'for salon sale only' stuff and selling it to retail outlets- but I don't know what the penalties are if caught. And that's not really fraud (on behalf of the retailer)- that's more like violating a TOS.

Re: Someone's stealing our identity on Apple's App Store

#62

Post by dhimes »

taway2012 wrote: post #51
honzzz wrote: post #44

If the guys from Flipagram are reading this - why would you contact Apple about this? Eastern European countries have lawyers and courts too. And not only can hiring a good lawyer in some Eastern European country be much (much!) cheaper than in the US but if you win the lawsuit the other party will probably have to pay reasonable part (if not all) of your legal expenses. And it might be helpful to try to understand t…

The comment by 'victorantos' here is useful. But he seems to be hellbanned. Please turn on showdead in your prefs so that you can see his comment.

Totally OT- but I can't figure out why he was banned. A few 'Show HN' posts in a row (for the same product) maybe? He was probably just trying it at different times to get traction. Weird.

Re: Someone's stealing our identity on Apple's App Store

#63

Post by tluyben2 »

whatts wrote: post #33
tluyben2 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google pulls apps too rapidly and without proof; just fill a (incomplete) DMCA request and they'll shut down the app first, ask questions later. Thorough research and actual proof are how it's supposed to be, not a half baked DMCA request.

Google does nothing about "cloned" fake apps, just look at this ask.fm clone, for example, which has been there for years and the developer is getting rich from 5M+ users and tons of ads inside: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wAskFM

Maybe the difference is that you actually need to copy the actual assets to be thrown out?

Re: Someone's stealing our identity on Apple's App Store

#64

Post by stevex »

I have an app in the store that's been doing reasonably well. Another developer released an app with the exact same name. (I'm not sure how, as the App Store normally prevents that). I filed a complaint with Apple, and they renamed their product, simply adding "Pro" to the name.

Search for any popular app name and you'll see the other apps trying to ride off the same search terms. Apple seems to be fine with that.

Where Apple will get involved is if you send them a properly worded legal request based on an actual trademark or intellectual property violation. They will act if they are compelled to, but only then.

Re: Someone's stealing our identity on Apple's App Store

#65

Post by whatts »

tluyben2 wrote: post #63
whatts wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google does nothing about "cloned" fake apps, just look at this ask.fm clone, for example, which has been there for years and the developer is getting rich from 5M+ users and tons of ads inside: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wAskFM

Maybe the difference is that you actually need to copy the actual assets to be thrown out?

Actually, their Developer Program Policies prohibit "a webview of a website not owned or administered by you": https://play.google.com/about/developer-content-policy.html But this is only a rule, that does not mean anybody enforces these guidelines ...

Re: Someone's stealing our identity on Apple's App Store

#66

Post by honzzz »

dhimes wrote: post #61
honzzz wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO the store has no way of reliably determining whether the 'Tide' you bring is fake or not (that's what courts are for) and therefore should not be responsible. Generally I understand your anger but I think that the concept of 3rd party responsibility is very dangerous and can create more damage than the fraud it is trying to prevent. If we make companies liable for actions of their clients they will preventively…

All it takes is a phone call. Certainly there is an account number where the money goes or some way to authenticate. I'm actually a little incredulous that Apple didn't try that- to the point of actually wondering if we are getting the whole story here. I remember this being a big deal a while back in a slightly different way: bootleg hair products. There is pretty good money in ripping off 'for salon sale only' stuf…

All it takes is a phone call.

You call one of them - he claim he has the rights. You call the other - he claims he has the rights. Now what?

And try the other perspective... try to imagine that you are the store owner and now someone makes you responsible for making sure that none of thousands of your suppliers is doing some dirty business... it's going to cost you a lot of money and despite that you can never be certain and you will basically live in constant fear of a lawsuit. That's huge burden on any business and it's very inefficient. That's one of the reasons that we have courts... they have tools that business owners simply do not have and only they can (somehow) reliably determine who is doing legitimate business and who is not.

Re: Someone's stealing our identity on Apple's App Store

#67

Post by drewying »

The curious thing to me is it took me 3 months once to get one of my apps through the app store because reviewer thought it was too similar to the app "Draw Something".

My app was called "Draw Wireless". It was a super dinky app that let people iPhones connect to each other via Bluetooth and draw on a shared whiteboard space in real time. It had a dark blue grey icon with a wireless symbol on it.

Other than the fact the icon had a dark blue background, it looked and behaved nothing like the app "Draw Something". But yet I had to redesign the icon three times and rewrite the app description four times before the reviewer felt I had distinguished enough from "Draw Something" and let it through. It took 3 freaking months.

TLDR; if your app is prominent enough then Apple will only let will go to extreme lengths to protect your app. I guess it's only if you are a small guy like these guys you need to worry about fakers.

Re: Someone's stealing our identity on Apple's App Store

#69

Post by dhimes »

honzzz wrote: post #66
dhimes wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All it takes is a phone call. Certainly there is an account number where the money goes or some way to authenticate. I'm actually a little incredulous that Apple didn't try that- to the point of actually wondering if we are getting the whole story here. I remember this being a big deal a while back in a slightly different way: bootleg hair products. There is pretty good money in ripping off 'for salon sale only' stuf…

All it takes is a phone call. You call one of them - he claim he has the rights. You call the other - he claims he has the rights. Now what? And try the other perspective... try to imagine that you are the store owner and now someone makes you responsible for making sure that none of thousands of your suppliers is doing some dirty business... it's going to cost you a lot of money and despite that you can never be cer…

I verify accounts all the time. By phone. I have an account number. The account number matches. The other guy doesn't have the account number. He fails step one. And that's a dead-simple, no-brainer level of implementation. It seems negligent to not even have that.

Every part of my business is involved in an account- from office supplies to banks to payment solutions.

It's not a huge burden at all for the business- and it's one that they certainly should be willing to bear.

I think it can be clearly shown that there is a reasonable level of expectation that any company would seek to ensure that they are interacting with an agent of a company.

Do you really think that if I were to walk into your bank, say I was you, withdraw all of your money, that you wouldn't be just a little pissed off that the bank simply took my word for it? Hell, I'm the founder of my company and when I withdraw from the company account I have to prove I have the right to do so.

I'll reiterate: this submission may not be telling the entire story. However, if it is, I think Apple should be made to repair damages in a very precedent-setting way, so companies are held to some reasonable behavioral standards.

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