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"Let's ban tiny phones" - UK Government

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Re: "Let's ban tiny phones" - UK Government

#61

Post by ImprovedSilence »

DanBC wrote: post #11

Banning tiny phones is stupid. These people have already shown that they don't care about the law - that's why they're in jail[1] and having a cell phone in prison is already not legal. What's it going to be now? Double plus unlegal? Surely faraday cages and cell-phone jamming would be easier and less restrictive for regular people. (The BBC article says they're changing legislation to allow them to block signals in…

I think the intent is to limit the degree with which one can still coordinate nefarious activity outside their prison. (like continuing to run a drug ring from you cell...) And the jailers probably have a good idea of who they want to target. Cell phones might be rampant in jails, but for 90% of the inmates you don't care about. The 10% you don't want to have cell phones have probably gotten much better at hiding them (ie small phones)

All that's just my guess, I'm not really advocating the ban, I'm just trying to think from other points of view.

Re: "Let's ban tiny phones" - UK Government

#62

Post by ImprovedSilence »

AndresNavarro wrote: post #60

I see the discussion revolving around the ideas of jamming the signal and alternative ways for prisoners to have access to cellphones. I would prefer to have a discussion about whether it's a good idea to forbid cellphones in jail in the first place...

A worthwhile discussion perhaps, I posted an alternate viewpoint above, here is the link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6257400

Re: "Let's ban tiny phones" - UK Government

#63

Post by king_jester »

zxcdw wrote: post #44
smtddr wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These people have already shown that they don't care about the law - that's why they're in jail While I agree banning small cellphones is useless, I don't care for this generalization. Not everyone in jail has a blatant disregard for law. For some it was just a moment of desperation, for some it was for some silly reason like weed, some may just be young people making mistakes and had the misfortune of being one of…

But still a good proportition of them ends up spending their lives in there by returning again and again if not being sentenced for life straight away. It's as if being a criminal was a lifestyle some people choose to adopt from the beginning. They don't even want out of it, and some want back "in" because that's where the culture strives.

It's really obvious you don't know much about prison and recidivism. Being convicted and spending time in prison has long reaching affects on your life. Your employment options become more limited, you may lose voting rights, your existing social networks are disconnected, you may be forced into low wage labor while imprisoned, you may be denied access to educational resources that would help you be employed after release, among other things.

> It's as if being a criminal was a lifestyle some people choose to adopt from the beginning. They don't even want out of it, and some want back "in" because that's where the culture strives.

You think people choose on purpose to be imprisoned rather than be free? This is a rationalization that prisoners deserve to be in prison because they are fundamentally flawed.

Re: "Let's ban tiny phones" - UK Government

#64

Post by ImprovedSilence »

onetimeonly wrote: post #29
alan_cx wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can stab people with keys. I have a VW flick key. Sharpen it up, and its a great little weapon.

You can stab people with almost anything. Toothbrush, piece of paper carefully folded, shoelaces melted into a soap mould... stopping one more thing getting in won't matter. I think the idea was to make it easier to notice them, as parent suggested.

so we should just give them knives since they will just find a way around not having one anyway?

Re: "Let's ban tiny phones" - UK Government

#67

Post by cdjk »

IgorPartola wrote: post #59
onetimeonly wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cells in UK jails are not barren concrete-and-metal things like in the movies. They have a sink, a desk, a kettle, a TV, a (usually padded) chair and a bed. You charge your phone by plugging it in :). Another fact many people don't know is that you can buy things, legally, in prison. By things, I mean pretty much anything in the Argos catalogue. You get an allowance of £10/week which you can save up (you have to earn…

Why don't they put some type of device that suppresses the GSM frequencies near each cell? Not that I am advocating this, just wondering why they haven't done that.

In the US that would be illegal, and get you in serious trouble with the FCC.

What is possible, however, is for the prison to run its own cell tower with whitelisted IMEIs - i.e. only the guards' phones.

Re: "Let's ban tiny phones" - UK Government

#68

Post by samatman »

zwieback wrote: post #37
onetimeonly wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cells in UK jails are not barren concrete-and-metal things like in the movies. They have a sink, a desk, a kettle, a TV, a (usually padded) chair and a bed. You charge your phone by plugging it in :). Another fact many people don't know is that you can buy things, legally, in prison. By things, I mean pretty much anything in the Argos catalogue. You get an allowance of £10/week which you can save up (you have to earn…

Too bad someone crafty enough to modify a cassette player to recharge a phone ends up in jail.

fundamentally, I agree. But keep in mind, skimming ATMs is a fine way to end up in jail. There is plenty of genuine crime one may commit with a knack for electronics.

Re: "Let's ban tiny phones" - UK Government

#69

Post by tomjen3 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #56
tomjen3 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting idea, but that wouldn't work, the authorities wouldn't let the drones close enough to the prisons. Oh and the drones I have seen available can't handle enough weight to lift much of anything.

> Interesting idea, but that wouldn't work, the authorities wouldn't let the drones close enough to the prisons. Couldn't they instead mortar things into the prison? Shoot a capsule with a phone on a very steep ballistic trajectory.

That is likely very illegal (read illegal and somebody cares) which could get you into that prison.

Re: "Let's ban tiny phones" - UK Government

#70

Post by nicholassmith »

gngeal wrote: post #51
nicholassmith wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guards generally carry phones on them as well so there'll be quite a few false positives.

Isn't it possible to separate the trafic? I'm not versed in the GSM standard, but there must be some form of authentication. It might be possible to recognize to whom the signal belongs. (In the worst case, cooperation of the cell service providers could be mandated by law in the network cells covering the prison premises.)

I don't think so, or at least non-trivially anyway. Same reason jammers are prohibited as they have a potential spillover, as you can't definitively say 'this is the range it'll work in'.

On the part of service providers also monitoring it it's difficult, a fair few prisons are actually within reasonably populated areas so it'd have to be pretty accurate signal tracking so you didn't get some spillover.

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