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Forced Exposure

groklaw.net

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Re: Forced Exposure

#61

Post by Questioneer »

igravious wrote: post #33
Questioneer wrote: post #2

Lets not try to code our way out of this. We succumb to terror pushing away meaningless bits of code on Github as a crypto projects in response. Some projects flourish sure but the same forces that profit off the court-less killings of others are collating your data, your pet projects. Harvesting your stolen info out of botnets. Giving you a salary for technician work keeping infrastructure ticking. Enough enabling t…

> Lets not try to code our way out of this. I disagree. Let's use all our skills and avenues, not just some of them. > We succumb to terror pushing away meaningless bits of code on Github as a crypto projects in response. That is a subjective opinion. Email itself is meaningless bits of code. You want us to stop using email altogether? What about the web? Why are you even posting on this forum so? > Some projects flo…

> Dell? A computer hardware device assembler? What on earth are you on about. You appear to think that the entire info-tech infrastructure, companies and "wage-slaves" alike are complicit in all this.

"Former intelligence contractor Edward Snowden began downloading documents describing the U.S. government's electronic spying programs while he was working for Dell Inc in April 2012, almost a year earlier than previously reported, according to U.S. officials and other sources familiar with the matter.

David Frink, a spokesman for Round Rock, Texas-based Dell, declined to comment on any aspect of Snowden's employment with the company, saying Dell's "customer" - presumably the NSA - had asked Dell not to talk publicly about him.[1]"

Thanks for the heaping pile of denigration.

[1] http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/15/usa-security-snowd...

Re: Forced Exposure

#62

Post by route66 »

pron wrote: post #39

I have said this on HN several times, and I will say this again. Dragnet surveillance of private digital correspondence by the US and other governments is wrong, and a gross, unjustified, overreaction to the real threat of terrorism. And yet, when taken as part of the whole picture that is the internet, government surveillance is little more than a drop in the ocean. While governments may collect a possibly significa…

> ... Google, Facebook and their ilk

... usually don't destroy hard drives of journalists or don't detain people as a matter of harrassment just to name two recent actions undertaken by governments who use their introspective powers to take conclusions ("we have to have this Miranda guy") and act upon them ("we know he's in Berlin. Check the flight records")

The point is that the control of the governments does not seem to work anymore OR, at the same time addressing that "Big Brother is loved": nobody cares, because governmental agencies do the right thing. (That is my impression until now, living in Europe)

Re: Forced Exposure

#63

Post by deerpig »

This is such depressing news. And I've been trying to think of a way to solve this technically, but the Government has the five dollar wrench, and all we have is the crypto.

Code will not be enough, the system only respects one thing, money. If enough people move to services outside of the States, the real people in power will tell the government to reinstate at least some civil liberties and human rights. But even then, don't expect too much.

As mixmax said, this is "akin the Intelligentsia leaving Germany in the 20's." It will start with moving to hosting and services outside the country and will eventually be followed by people physically leaving the country. As James Joyce said, "silence, cunning... exile"!

It's not so bad. I've been an expat for 26 years and I've never looked back.

Re: Forced Exposure

#64

Post by Questioneer »

jgg wrote: post #57
Questioneer wrote: post #2

Lets not try to code our way out of this. We succumb to terror pushing away meaningless bits of code on Github as a crypto projects in response. Some projects flourish sure but the same forces that profit off the court-less killings of others are collating your data, your pet projects. Harvesting your stolen info out of botnets. Giving you a salary for technician work keeping infrastructure ticking. Enough enabling t…

Hello, random new account advising us not to come up with electronic solutions to electronic government surveillance! >Some projects flourish sure but the same forces that profit off the court-less killings of others are collating your data, your pet projects. Harvesting your stolen info out of botnets. What in the fuck does this even mean? How is it relevant? The only problem with "fresh" crypto projects is that if…

> What in the fuck does this even mean? How is it relevant?

It means projects with sound footing are likely to be undermined aggressively by all means. Through courts, around courts, under courts. Undermined using infrastructure and resources provided by many potential contributor's day jobs.

A bit like trying to build a castle on the weekend while getting paid to help knock it down during the weekdays. Wondering why it didn't amount to much some time later.

Re: Forced Exposure

#65

Post by willvarfar »

rolux wrote: post #50
willvarfar wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we need entirely new communication protocols Whole new enforcement of privacy laws, you mean?

No, I mean protocols. While elsewhere in the comments, there is the sentiment that "you can't code yourself out of this", my hopes of voting myself out of it (or otherwise "fixing" a system, as if it was just accidentally "broken") are much lower. (But note that "protocols" may also have non-technological components.)

Its a subject I keep an eye on, e.g. freenet and off-the-record messaging.

I think these systems cannot work :(

If you can make a system that is immune to traffic analysis - http://williamedwardscoder.tumblr.com/post/54088903127/onion... is my own blog but I'm about to shoot it down - then you basically have an open router and the spam abuse that implies.

Any reasonably anonymous system will collapse under the weight of abuse :(

Re: Forced Exposure

#66

Post by igravious »

MichaelGG wrote: post #48

I guess I don't get it. Didn't we "know" about things like Carnivore in the 90s? Isn't it rather expected that unencrypted communications are going to be gathered? You don't even need a nation-state to do so. Anyone with physical access can place taps, and parsing and saving port 25 traffic ain't exactly Manhattan Project level work. I agree it's upsetting and citizens should be demanding oversight. But to assume you…

I know. We're all so gullible and dumb right?

Tell me. You're speaking with a friend in a public square or park in your town. You're not speaking in code with your friend. Judging by what you just said I expect you assume your every conversation is being monitored.

We have certain expectations of privacy and basic human decency. Just because it's possible to wiretap and hoover up all unencrypted communications I wouldn't have concluded that the spooks are doing so because I would have thought they wouldn't stoop to this behaviour. Sure there was a little bit of info here and there but there's nothing like hard evidence (Snowden-style) for changing ones mind.

You don't have to show us all how smart you are, we know already -- so you can keep these types of comments to yourself.

Re: Forced Exposure

#67

Post by jgg »

Questioneer wrote: post #64
jgg wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello, random new account advising us not to come up with electronic solutions to electronic government surveillance! >Some projects flourish sure but the same forces that profit off the court-less killings of others are collating your data, your pet projects. Harvesting your stolen info out of botnets. What in the fuck does this even mean? How is it relevant? The only problem with "fresh" crypto projects is that if…

> What in the fuck does this even mean? How is it relevant? It means projects with sound footing are likely to be undermined aggressively by all means. Through courts, around courts, under courts. Undermined using infrastructure and resources provided by many potential contributor's day jobs. A bit like trying to build a castle on the weekend while getting paid to help knock it down during the weekdays. Wondering why…

> It means projects with sound footing are likely to be undermined aggressively by all means.

So we shouldn't even try?

Re: Forced Exposure

#68

Post by quail »

mixmax wrote: post #20

While I understand her (1) personal reasons for shutting down Groklaw, this is an extraordinarily bad decision for privacy and democracy. In the last few weeks quite a few providers of private communications and/or freedom (for some definition of freedom) have shut down. Lavabot, Freedom Hosting, etc. If the US could shut down The Guardian they would. This leaves fewer and fewer secure channels for private communicat…

Obama continues to push hard to steal what little privacy rights US citizens have remaining. He is openly hostile about it, and lies about it constantly.

Am I exaggerating here? The scary thing is I'm not. He's not done. It's going to get worse.

Re: Forced Exposure

#69

Post by kaoD »

rlpb wrote: post #42
kaoD wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just non-feasible. Freenet is a distributed file/web database, not realtime internet.

Email does not have to be real time.

Maybe realtime was not the best choice of a word, but Freenet cannot handle email in any case.

Freenet is a global distributed p2p file database. Email does not fit that medium.

Re: Forced Exposure

#70

Post by brown9-2 »

Can anyone explain for the uninformed how anything like surveillance affects Groklaw?

I was under the (probably wrong) impression that most of what Groklaw did was explain the law and court cases in simple terms.

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