Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's been worse lately, I wish all political debates were banned in this place. IMO HN should be a technical forum first and foremost. There are plenty of places on the internet do discuss politics, this doesn't need to be one of them.
Except that the implications of Snowden and PRISM and whatnot are fisrt and foremost technical when it comes to running an online business, something HN is very focused on.
Russia's Mark Zuckerberg offers Snowden a job.
61–70 of 111 posts
Re: Russia's Mark Zuckerberg offers Snowden a job.
#62Realistically, I don't think Snowden needs a job. Not for income at any rate. There's no shortage of very wealthy people willing to support him for opposing the U.S. government.
Yeah, but there's nothing worse than boredom for a computer guy. And besides, protecting the user privacy is probably something he cares about.
If he has no problems getting money, the boredom is easily alleviated by having access to a computer and internet. He could just work for himself.
Re: Russia's Mark Zuckerberg offers Snowden a job.
#63The title of this article is typical Americanism...
Re: Russia's Mark Zuckerberg offers Snowden a job.
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the deal with everybody always taking sides?! NSA AND Russia are bad. There is nothing good in spying on people OR outlawing gays...
Not only individual people take sides, organizations and governments take too. For how I see it, NSA is bashed because it took a side against the most of us. Russia on the other hand, gets its "hurray" because it opposes the one that is against us right now. It's not necessarily taking a side and sticking with it as a partisan, it is just condemning or recognizing one's merit when it's the case, simple.
Re: Russia's Mark Zuckerberg offers Snowden a job.
#65"In such moments one feels pride with our country and regret over the course taken by United States -- a country betraying the principles it was once built on," Even Russians get it... Why don't more Americans get it?
Re: Russia's Mark Zuckerberg offers Snowden a job.
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except they're correct. HN has always been an echo chamber and the groupthink here is thicker than most places.
It's been worse lately, I wish all political debates were banned in this place. IMO HN should be a technical forum first and foremost. There are plenty of places on the internet do discuss politics, this doesn't need to be one of them.
I mean, I'm guilty of the same thing, too.
Really, I think the problem is that I (or you) click on these obvious political headlines. It's not like it's not obvious what they are from the headline, so they aren't hard to avoid. I'd compare this waste of time with being fat; the problem isn't the candy jar; the problem is that I /eat/ the candy in the candy jar.
Re: Russia's Mark Zuckerberg offers Snowden a job.
#67The title of this article is typical Americanism...
So true. Americans (from US) deserve a better and less provincial mainstream media. "Russia's Mark Zuckerberg" is a ridiculous title.
Or are Americans to be blamed for not knowing the owner of a social service hardly anyone here uses?
Re: Russia's Mark Zuckerberg offers Snowden a job.
#68"In such moments one feels pride with our country and regret over the course taken by United States -- a country betraying the principles it was once built on," Even Russians get it... Why don't more Americans get it?
I really don't get how people can be so naive on HN. Let's talk about Snowden all day and wish we were more like Russia, where it's perfectly ok to say anything you want. Sorry guys, but not every one really believes the NSA should be disbanded. They have a real job to do. Certainly there needs to be limits, which we could of course discuss for years on end, but I don't see the point of doing it in a forum that reall…
We are not saying we think the states should be more like Russia, well I aren't at least, we're pointing out the hypocrisy of the Powers That Be state-side.
They publicly chant "our way is better, what you are doing it wrong" but when their way doesn't work or otherwise becomes inconvenient they are perfectly happy to quietly use the techniques and policies they deride when others use them.
Russia doing many more bad things than the US is not justification for the US doing one thing we consider wrong.
I can't say I see anyone who is in the right in all this:
* I can see the national security argument having some validity so Snowden is culpable for releasing state secrets. He was trusted with information, he abused that trust (for reasons he and many others consider morally correct, but that morality issue does not mean it wasn't an abuse of trust).
* But what he released was details of the states doing something that they promised they were not doing, something that they deride oppressive states for. Whether Snowden's actions are right or wrong does not alter the fact the powers that be over there are both liars and hypocrites. They have abused the trust of their people.
* Russia is only taking part in this little game to wind up people it (or perhaps more specifically, Putin) feels the desire to wind up. They don't care one way or the other for Snowden specifically nor that the US is explicitly spying on its own people.
Re: Russia's Mark Zuckerberg offers Snowden a job.
#69"In such moments one feels pride with our country and regret over the course taken by United States -- a country betraying the principles it was once built on," Even Russians get it... Why don't more Americans get it?
Get what?
A large group of the American people are upset that the NSA was spying on its own citizens. There's a healthy, and sometimes rancorous discussion going on over here. Lawmakers are trying to tighten up laws, the cabinet is defensive, and the populace is arguing amongst its self.
betraying the principles it was once built on...
No, "the country" is not. There seems to be this mythical belief that varies from country to country as to what it "means" to be the United States; even within the United States no one can agree as to what those principles actually are -- so how can someone outside of it be so sure? What have we learned in 200+ years of representative democracy? It hurts, it's hard, we can't always agree, we can't always make up our mind, we struggle to find balance, and when groups of people can make rules sometimes they make absolutely atrocious ones just like individuals do. Along the way, it will look terrible and horrible to outsiders who think they "see the obvious that no one inside of the system sees." Sorry, as an outsider you're not miraculously the only one aware of the truth - you're like that annoying other programmer who is always full of great ideas about how your code should be written, but always seems to gloss over the hard parts.
So, for those countries that romanticized about how utopian the United States must be for decades and decades of some other type of rule, and very recently have been given some semblance of democracy, it must be jarring to see there is no magic pill for the corruption and tyranny they may occasionally live under. But to think that "America has lost its way," it to act like a partisan here. I hear that every day from someone who is griping about some thing they don't like. It's trite at best.
The person who made the statement clearly has no idea as to what the principles of the United States actually are, and instead has idolized them into some inner picture of perfection that never existed.
Re: Russia's Mark Zuckerberg offers Snowden a job.
#70* This is not indicative of Russia as a collective endorsing or supporting Snowden. One man residing in Russia, a Russian national, offered Snowden a job relevant to his experience. This article says nothing about the public perception of Snowden in Russia. Anything else is supposition. All he has is asylum and a job. Both things can be granted by a huge minority of people in government, of which we do not yet understand their obscured motivations and agendas.
* I don't think we should be praising Russia for this - let's remember Russia is the place where homosexuality is almost scathingly rejected, human rights violations are normal, and freedom of the press is in effect...except when it's not. Yes, they gave Snowden asylum. I wonder what they could gain from that aside from just being a bunch of good guys...come on. This says nothing about the Russian people understanding America's problems, and they are certainly not an ideal to strive towards (nothing against Russians as a people, but a lot of their laws are deplorable by modern standards).
* I wouldn't trust the job, and I wouldn't take it. I wouldn't want any solid association with anyone, high-roller or not, who could be leveraged against me. This is paranoid, but whatever is uncertain about the NSA scandal, it's certain the government (or members thereof) is probably desperate to retrieve Snowden.
* Again, as I have said repeatedly since this all came out - don't let your outrage at the (vastly exaggerated) NSA scandal prevent you from seeing the truth - as a government agency, the NSA is largely beneficial to our country, and we shouldn't seek to disband it. Rather, we should correct its abuses and continue forward. I clearly see the black and white "us and them" mentality being tosses around with the NSA, Russia, Snowden and the U.S. government in the comment threads here and it's misinformed.