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Obama administration vetos Apple iPhone 4, 3G iPad 2 product ban [pdf]

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Re: Obama administration vetos Apple iPhone 4, 3G iPad 2 product ban [pdf]

#61

Intervening in one case for an iconic American company is protectionism, not free trade. That would have entailed reforming the patent system for everyone. This is ominous, what if this is remembered as the equivalent of Smoot-Hawley? Patents are a hell of a lot more complex than tariffs... and at least the ITC is trying to do international coordination here, and Obama has just blatantly undermined them.

Congress seems to have explicitly preferred this approach, however. They could've set up a system with uniform rules and a mandatory process that the president can't overrule, as is commonly done with other areas like environmental rules. The president does have some power over the EPA, but can't arbitrarily instruct the EPA to drop rules simply because he disagrees with the outcome of the rulemaking process. But here Congress said that if the President disagrees with any ruling of the IPC "for policy reasons", he need merely notify the ITC and the ruling will be voided. That seems to indicate Congress wanted case-by-case review of ITC determinations for policy conformance. Why would they write that into the law? My guess is precisely to allow national economic interests to take priority over the rules on a case-by-case basis.

Re: Obama administration vetos Apple iPhone 4, 3G iPad 2 product ban [pdf]

#62
post #52
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's upsetting that some proponents of this administration dismiss its critics because they presume that they dislike him categorically. It is this sort of bigoted presumption and political antagonism that is causing the erosion of political discourse in this country. This issue is not that Obama has critics, it's that some people believe that he shouldn't. Why is it so difficult for people to accept that those who d…

Some of the criticism that's raised against presidents is about personal attributes, not policy. However, this kind of criticism is not a new phenomenon, and Obama isn't the greatest victim of this. For a recent example, many people were more fond of pointing at GWB's buffoonery than the problems with his policies and the actions of his administration. Political debate in a de-facto two party system easily turns into…

Agreed it seems as though most political reporting, especially on the partisan channels, has been reduced to irrelevant attacks based around embarrassming incidents and off-hand statements. It doesn't even seem as though people want to discus the issues.

Re: Obama administration vetos Apple iPhone 4, 3G iPad 2 product ban [pdf]

#64
post #63

Where was all this outrage when South Korea banned the iPhone until 2009 to protect the local cell phone makers? http://www.crn.com/news/networking/220100939/south-korea-lif...

Believe it or not, a whole lot of South Koreans were complaining about it, you just don't hear about it over here in America.

Source: I'm Korean

Re: Obama administration vetos Apple iPhone 4, 3G iPad 2 product ban [pdf]

#65
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking legal action against FRAND abuse is hardly unique to the US. http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/12/european-commission-to-is... See also Mueller on this veto; while I often disagree with him, I tend to agree on this issue: http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/08/obama-administration-veto...

The problem I have with this argument, is, isn't the point of every technological advance to become widespread and Standards-Essential? If we're going to disallow them, why have patents at all? For "Look-And-Feel" patents?

Because even strong software patents often have alternatives, and weak ones are easy to find an alternative to, decreasing their value, but once a standard protocol requires their use, the patent holder can jack up the price. As an extreme example, consider the exFAT patents: there are many file systems superior to exFAT that have no need for whatever bits of functionality Microsoft patented, but because Windows speaks exFAT as one of few alternatives, some companies have licensed them. Not exactly a standard, but the same idea.

Re: Obama administration vetos Apple iPhone 4, 3G iPad 2 product ban [pdf]

#66

Point of order. This isn't a veto. A veto is for legislation, this is fully contained within the executive branch.

Veto just means "I forbid". It is perfectly fine to use it outside the context of the President denying his consent to legislation. For example I could, and have, vetoed a resturant in a discussion of where to go for dinner. In this case a decision of the International Trade Commission is presumptively valid unless the President, or his designee, forbids the ruling from going into effect -- or in other words, unless…

These are all fine uses of the word.

However, when you use the word "veto" in the context of the President, it implies a certain set of actions that have taken place. It actually encourages people to think those events took place, when reading the letter makes it obvious that they didn't.

This is all moot now, since they changed the headline from "Obama vetoes..." to "Obama Administration vetoes...".

Re: Obama administration vetos Apple iPhone 4, 3G iPad 2 product ban [pdf]

#67
post #64
post #63

Where was all this outrage when South Korea banned the iPhone until 2009 to protect the local cell phone makers? http://www.crn.com/news/networking/220100939/south-korea-lif...

Believe it or not, a whole lot of South Koreans were complaining about it, you just don't hear about it over here in America. Source: I'm Korean

I wasn't "outraged" because it didn't affect me or mine, but I do find incidents like that distressing. Especially because, at least in Korea's case, it can compete.

One example, granted, with Google's help, is my father, who tried both an iPhone and a Galaxy, and decided the latter was better.

Re: Obama administration vetos Apple iPhone 4, 3G iPad 2 product ban [pdf]

#68
post #40
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't begin to imagine what the ITC will do having been completely undermined by Obama. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple suffers from some international retaliation for this. Obama doesn't fully understand how commerce works.

No, it's that many of us don't agree with how commerce and government actually work together.

Care to expand?

Re: Obama administration vetos Apple iPhone 4, 3G iPad 2 product ban [pdf]

#69

Intervening in one case for an iconic American company is protectionism, not free trade. That would have entailed reforming the patent system for everyone. This is ominous, what if this is remembered as the equivalent of Smoot-Hawley? Patents are a hell of a lot more complex than tariffs... and at least the ITC is trying to do international coordination here, and Obama has just blatantly undermined them.

Congress seems to have explicitly preferred this approach, however. They could've set up a system with uniform rules and a mandatory process that the president can't overrule, as is commonly done with other areas like environmental rules. The president does have some power over the EPA, but can't arbitrarily instruct the EPA to drop rules simply because he disagrees with the outcome of the rulemaking process. But her…

Congress, in most cases of late, prefers to give more arbitrary authority to the Executive branch rather than actually craft specific and meaningful rules.

Re: Obama administration vetos Apple iPhone 4, 3G iPad 2 product ban [pdf]

#70

What a joke. So good to see the president is finally tackling the patent abuses, by protecting local trolls from a taste of their very own medicine. (The justification here being that this ban is not "in the interest of the public". If this was considered in ay other cases, we'd all be paying cents for generics from India instead of thousands of millions for the brand version)

Neither Apple, nor Samsung or Google invented patents. It's a government's creation made before they came to the scene. Once you build a company in a framework of patents and police enforcing them (by threatening to take your property by force), you have to play by the rules. And the rules are: grab first to protect yourself against others. In absence of brutal enforcement, companies would have to find peaceful ways to agree on "merchant's code" (which was always happening in history where the state did not intervene too much). E.g. Apple could come to a voluntary agreement with BestBuy that they won't sell "copycat" products, or Apple wouldn't sell iPhones there. And everyone would try to find a balance where certain business practices are acceptable or not. And ultimately customers would judge if the companies serve them well enough. But when government introduces a paperwork for violence, then business gets ugly.
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