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Mean Stack

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Re: Mean Stack

#61

Post by ganarajpr »

10098 wrote: post #45
drhayes9 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "developers" dig seems unnecessary. @cuttooth and @PommeDeTerre, since you both are pushing the "JS is a flawed language" angle, what do you find are its greatest flaws?

I can tell you why I dislike programming in JavaScript (those aren't necessarily faults of javascript itself): 1. Complex code usually contains some horrible callback spaghetti, which is not pleasant to debug at all. 2. General flakiness, or, as I call it, the "WTF happened?" syndrome. I run into this all the time. Change or add something - suddenly you find the web page broken. Okay, so there's a bug somewhere. Clic…

The problem with javascript and the tooling related to it isnt something to do with the existence of great tools. Ofcourse, tools that are pretty mature and really good, as found for other languages dont exist for javascript ( like the tooling for java for ex ) but that doesnt mean there is nothing out there.

I use Intellij and I have noticed that I dont do any mistakes likes missing commas, accidental global declarations etc because my IDE ( intellij ) tells me about them. It infact corrects me when I make any such mistakes. The real problem is with people still using simple text editors to write javascript code because they dont think there is any advantage of using a full fledged IDE which does anything , because they think that there is nothing out there which actually helps.

Re: Mean Stack

#62

Post by olegp »

We've been using almost the same stack at StartHQ (https://starthq.com) with great success. Mongo and Angular make it easy for us to iterate quickly. Performance hasn't been an issue with up to 300 concurrent visitors on site running on a AWS micro instance.

The one thing we do differently is that we're using fibers and Common Node (https://github.com/olegp/common-node), as well as Stick (https://github.com/olegp/stick) instead of Express. This lets us write complex business logic with less code and without having to worry about explicitly handling errors, since we get to use exceptions.

Re: Mean Stack

#63

Post by patrickaljord »

10098 wrote: post #47
[deleted] wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

NoSQL is a regression in a sense. Or, if you prefer, a conscious trade-off. Providing the same guarantees as traditional relational databases becomes difficult at scale, so you trade some of the features for higher scalability. For example, you can have a very highly available, distributed key-value store, but with no transactions across multiple rows, no query language, no schema, no indexing, etc. If you think abou…

You want http://rethinkdb.com.

Re: Mean Stack

#65

Post by krmmalik »

krmmalik wrote: post #39
outside1234 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mongo is incredibly productive. In the "lean startup" sense it is an easy database to start with.

Exactly the discussion i had today with a colleague. Mongoose makes it incredibly easy to get started and iterate rapidly. I have yet to experience MongoDB in a large scale production environment and the common pitfalls often cited, but let's face it - If you're Start-Up has scalability issues, it's prob a nice problem to have. Based on my personal observations, i suspect the lack of adoption is because founders are…

Sounds like the information you've been given is in the wrong context.

I've had MongoDb running on my laptop in less than 5 mins and used it locally for multiple projects without issues.

The kind of problems you mention probably occur on very heavy use but i've never witnessed it myself.

For small scale stuff and getting up and running quickly, i've not used anything as convenient as Mongo

Note: I'm on Windows.

Also consider MongoHQ - They have a really good Start-Up package.

Re: Mean Stack

#66

Post by krmmalik »

stesch wrote: post #58
krmmalik wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly the discussion i had today with a colleague. Mongoose makes it incredibly easy to get started and iterate rapidly. I have yet to experience MongoDB in a large scale production environment and the common pitfalls often cited, but let's face it - If you're Start-Up has scalability issues, it's prob a nice problem to have. Based on my personal observations, i suspect the lack of adoption is because founders are…

Is MongoDB the right DB for every size of startup? What about the people who just want to try different projects on 1 (one!) single server? What I've read about MongoDB, it wants to use all the memory it gets. So it's only usable if it is running on its own server. (And in the beginning of MongoDB it had to be 2 servers if you didn't want to lose data.) Is this a false information again? Am I falling for anti MongoDB…

Sounds like the information you've been given is in the wrong context.

I've had MongoDb running on my laptop in less than 5 mins and used it locally for multiple projects without issues.

The kind of problems you mention probably occur on very heavy use but i've never witnessed it myself.

For small scale stuff and getting up and running quickly, i've not used anything as convenient as Mongo

Note: I'm on Windows.

Also consider MongoHQ - They have a really good Start-Up package.

Re: Mean Stack

#67

Post by krmmalik »

krmmalik wrote: post #65
krmmalik wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly the discussion i had today with a colleague. Mongoose makes it incredibly easy to get started and iterate rapidly. I have yet to experience MongoDB in a large scale production environment and the common pitfalls often cited, but let's face it - If you're Start-Up has scalability issues, it's prob a nice problem to have. Based on my personal observations, i suspect the lack of adoption is because founders are…

Sounds like the information you've been given is in the wrong context. I've had MongoDb running on my laptop in less than 5 mins and used it locally for multiple projects without issues. The kind of problems you mention probably occur on very heavy use but i've never witnessed it myself. For small scale stuff and getting up and running quickly, i've not used anything as convenient as Mongo Note: I'm on Windows. Also…

please ignore. I always manage to click the wrong button to reply on the mobile app

Re: Mean Stack

#68

Post by dmak »

alanh wrote: post #13

I’m not a NoSQL expert, but everyone I know who is considers Mongo a joke in production. And I would never use Angular in production apps (“painfully slow” is reason enough but I have ideological differences as well). That makes saying “no” to this stack easy.

What's wrong with Angular? Why is it slow?

Re: Mean Stack

#69

Post by PommeDeTerre »

Volpe wrote: post #56
bricestacey wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mongo sucks. I've used it in production for millions of people. I would never recommend it ever again. It's convenient, about the same way a hooker is.

Maybe your app wasn't suited for what it's good as. A File system would suck as a relational database... that doesn't mean it sucks in general. I suspect you had the same problem with Mongo.

It's confusing to see responses like this.

We continually hear about how great MongoDB supposedly is from its advocates, with them claiming it's suitable as a general-purpose database.

Yet when somebody who has apparently used it in a production setting speaks out against it and its numerous flaws, the problem isn't with MongoDB. No way! It's a "problem" with the app "not being suited for" what MongoDB is "good at".

Re: Mean Stack

#70

Post by PommeDeTerre »

drhayes9 wrote: post #38
cuttooth wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JavaScript "developers" feel the need to not use any other language than JavaScript, so they decided to shove it into as many unnecessary places as possible, even if their code more frequently ends up being an unmaintainable mess with no noticeable performance gains.

The "developers" dig seems unnecessary. @cuttooth and @PommeDeTerre, since you both are pushing the "JS is a flawed language" angle, what do you find are its greatest flaws?

The numerous flaws with JavaScript (the programming language) are well-known and well-documented. A few search engine searches should bring up ample information.

As for its "greatest flaw", I think that may be the JavaScript community, and the general attitudes within it.

There is, unfortunately, a very high degree of ignorance within the JavaScript community. There are far too many JavaScript programmers who only know JavaScript, or an equally-horrid language like PHP. Having such a limited world view, they don't realize how inherently bad their tools are, and they don't realize how much better they could be.

This ignorance has many side-effects. One big one is that we see a near-complete lack of improvement of the language itself. Any changes that have happened never really address any of the serious flaws with the language.

Another side-effect is that we see JavaScript used in ways that it shouldn't be used, in places that it shouldn't be used. Large browser-based applications and server-side applications (of any size) are two good examples. Asm.js is another. Emscripten is yet another.

There are various other issues with the community, their attitude, and their ignorance, too. We could go on for a very long time about this.

The JavaScript community ends up earning a lot of animosity, if not outright scorn, from those developers who have experience with many programming languages, and who have spent years, if not decades, developing production-grade software in a much more sensible, proper manner.

I don't think that anyone would really care if JavaScript users used it solely as a hobby. But the moment they try to use it professionally, for real-world software systems, they'd better be prepared to defend themselves and their technological choices. They can't bring their amateurish programming language and ignorance to the table and not expect to be treated harshly.

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