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Bitfury 400 GH/s Bitcoin Mining Rig Hits US Shores

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Re: Bitfury 400 GH/s Bitcoin Mining Rig Hits US Shores

#61

Post by richcollins »

ultimoo wrote: post #36

How does investing engineering effort in designing mining ASICs and spending dollars to purchase what is essentially a currency generating machine help us as a community? I wish we were just as enthusiastic and race to solve other problems too -- like spreading education, finding out ways to purify water, or maximizing agriculture throughput in famine, or predicting when the next hurricane, tsunami, or earthquake is…

A P2P currency might help people allocate resources more effectively (to solve problems like the ones that you mentioned). Right now much of our wealth is flushed down the toilet when stolen through taxes and inflation and given to bankers and other government corporate welfare recipients.

Re: Bitfury 400 GH/s Bitcoin Mining Rig Hits US Shores

#62

Post by sliverstorm »

Tuna-Fish wrote: post #56
sliverstorm wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, and that is the great irony of Bitcoin in my eyes. In the long term, the value of Bitcoin will probably continue to stabilize around the price of electricity, which is of course defined in US dollars. In other words, Bitcoin will be anchored to the value of USD (with some factor comprised of average rig efficiency and prices per watt)

> Yup, and that is the great irony of Bitcoin in my eyes. In the long term, the value of Bitcoin will probably continue to stabilize around the price of electricity, which is of course defined in US dollars. No, you have completely misunderstood how bitcoin mining works. The bitcoin value won't ever stabilize to electricity, the rewards of mining will. The effective reward per Ghash can go up or down independently of…

The difficulty only changes every 2 weeks or so though.

Re: Bitfury 400 GH/s Bitcoin Mining Rig Hits US Shores

#63

Post by wmf »

eliben wrote: post #58

I wonder when BitCoin will reach the stage at which mining is not economically viable because the expended electricity is more expensive than the amount of BC gained. It is my understanding that such a point should be eventually reached due to the mathematical nature of BCs.

The price of electricity varies by location. I expect within 9 months Bitcoin mining will only be profitable for people with the cheapest electricity. Essentially there will be three phases: first, ASICs will get more efficient as they move from 130 nm to 28 nm (this is in progress with KnC and HashFast), then profit margins will reduce from 90% down to ~10%, and finally there will be an endgame where even a 28 nm ASIC sold at cost won't be profitable unless you have super-cheap electricity.

Re: Bitfury 400 GH/s Bitcoin Mining Rig Hits US Shores

#64

Post by makomk »

sliverstorm wrote: post #38
Tuna-Fish wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably will. This needs to be repeated every time btc ASICs are discussed: ASIC economics don't work like most physical products, and instead work more like software. For high-performance asics, the costs of design and masks completely overshadow the costs of actually making chips unless your volume is in the millions. To make the first chip costs many millions, to make the next chip costs $15. The most valuab…

Oh shit, so what you are saying is once the R&D is paid for, they can just stop selling them and manufacture as many $15 400GHash units as they please. At that point they would have virtually zero worry about "breaking even", it's pretty much pure profit as soon as they plug in the device.

Pretty much, and there's a bunch of other companies that can do the same thing,

Re: Bitfury 400 GH/s Bitcoin Mining Rig Hits US Shores

#65

Post by mkr-hn »

derekp7 wrote: post #45
ultimoo wrote: post #36

How does investing engineering effort in designing mining ASICs and spending dollars to purchase what is essentially a currency generating machine help us as a community? I wish we were just as enthusiastic and race to solve other problems too -- like spreading education, finding out ways to purify water, or maximizing agriculture throughput in famine, or predicting when the next hurricane, tsunami, or earthquake is…

I already know how to purify water. I go to Walmart and buy a replacement filter for my Britta pitcher. As for fixing famine, that I have no clue where to start. However, I do know how to write code, and if I can take some of the money I've earned to buy one of theses "useless" devices which can also make me some money, maybe one of the engineers at that company can spend his paycheck to send his daughter to college,…

Consumer filters don't purify water. They remove a small number of contaminants common in wealthy countries.

Re: Bitfury 400 GH/s Bitcoin Mining Rig Hits US Shores

#66

Post by sliverstorm »

makomk wrote: post #64
sliverstorm wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh shit, so what you are saying is once the R&D is paid for, they can just stop selling them and manufacture as many $15 400GHash units as they please. At that point they would have virtually zero worry about "breaking even", it's pretty much pure profit as soon as they plug in the device.

Pretty much, and there's a bunch of other companies that can do the same thing,

Perfect, so bitcoin mining will be dominated by a few private entities!

Re: Bitfury 400 GH/s Bitcoin Mining Rig Hits US Shores

#67

Post by nhaehnle »

richcollins wrote: post #61
ultimoo wrote: post #36

How does investing engineering effort in designing mining ASICs and spending dollars to purchase what is essentially a currency generating machine help us as a community? I wish we were just as enthusiastic and race to solve other problems too -- like spreading education, finding out ways to purify water, or maximizing agriculture throughput in famine, or predicting when the next hurricane, tsunami, or earthquake is…

A P2P currency might help people allocate resources more effectively (to solve problems like the ones that you mentioned). Right now much of our wealth is flushed down the toilet when stolen through taxes and inflation and given to bankers and other government corporate welfare recipients.

These issues are completely orthogonal to how the currency is implemented. You still have to pay taxes even if you use Bitcoin.

Re: Bitfury 400 GH/s Bitcoin Mining Rig Hits US Shores

#68

Post by anderspetersson »

simonsarris wrote: post #3

I've got to commend Bitfury, the Levi's of bitcoin. Just as in every gold rush, it is a much more blessed position to be the one selling the blue jeans and shovels than to be the one attempting to sift and mine. I wonder if Bitfury accepts bitcoin as payment. I suspect they do not. EDIT: You can totally pay with bitcoin - http://www.bitfurystrikesback.com/checkout/

If that weren't the case they could just mine with them on their own.

Re: Bitfury 400 GH/s Bitcoin Mining Rig Hits US Shores

#69

Post by oscargrouch »

icelancer wrote: post #51
oscargrouch wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you are just reinforcing what hes saying.. those things shouldnt need to have prizes in Money to people start working on it.. the point being maded by ultimoo (and i agree with it) is that WE need to change the way we think about things.. the way we are.. we need to change our prizes, and become happy with other sort of payments.. (like be happy to help others to have a better life) if we get to manage to have a inco…

>doesnt it say something about us all? That we're utilitarian in nature? This isn't exactly Nobel-prize winning stuff. The idea that we collect money and this is greedy or inherently bad is a highly personal view. Besides, what about Bill Gates and others who are donating their fortunes to do EXACTLY what you two ask? You're also ignoring the fact that "getting richer" is not the enemy of "doing good."

I have nothing against somebody making a fortune, at least through hard work, and by creating value to society, like Bill Gates did..

but there are parts of "getting richer" that can really do harm.. drugs? corruption? greedy banks?

Im all the way for the "good capital", and thats the one that creates goods and value to us all..

acomplished people should have sucess, this is cool..

but i see a lot of the "get rich first, donate later" much people praise.. but in the majority of cases.. this is just a way they can feel good about themselves.. but in the end it will just create more greedy people that doe more harm than good..

the beginings, and true intentions always count.. easy money without real value, is what corrupts our society, and worse.. make the dollar created by value of the real working people (and i include bill gates/steve jobs in that list) less valuable..

thats all about the 2008 crysis.. its the same evil root.. but see the guys behind it.. and how they use to make money

Re: Bitfury 400 GH/s Bitcoin Mining Rig Hits US Shores

#70

Post by Fomite »

derekp7 wrote: post #45
ultimoo wrote: post #36

How does investing engineering effort in designing mining ASICs and spending dollars to purchase what is essentially a currency generating machine help us as a community? I wish we were just as enthusiastic and race to solve other problems too -- like spreading education, finding out ways to purify water, or maximizing agriculture throughput in famine, or predicting when the next hurricane, tsunami, or earthquake is…

I already know how to purify water. I go to Walmart and buy a replacement filter for my Britta pitcher. As for fixing famine, that I have no clue where to start. However, I do know how to write code, and if I can take some of the money I've earned to buy one of theses "useless" devices which can also make me some money, maybe one of the engineers at that company can spend his paycheck to send his daughter to college,…

Pure, clean water for most of the world is nowhere near a solved problem.
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