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Give Snowden his due: He made a surveillance debate possible

latimes.com

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Re: Give Snowden his due: He made a surveillance debate possible

#61
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NSA surveillance foiled this potential terrorist and he is now incarcerated: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Najibullah_Zazi He was going to bomb NYC subways. Please, if you're going to participate in this so called "surveillance debate", stick to facts and refrain from hyperbole.

If you're going to participate in the "surveillance debate" don't be so stupidly myopic to argue only the ridiculous point that this keeps anyone safe from "terrorists". If the NSA can literally look into any electronic conversation between anyone, then why haven't they stopped a single drug cartel? Any premeditated murder? Why hasn't a single banister been brought to justice over their internal emails detailing deli…

>If the NSA can literally look into any electronic conversation between anyone, then why haven't they stopped a single drug cartel?

See: Coast Guard.

>This is digital enslavement and every single person who approves of this bullshit is complicit.

And your evidence for that claim is...? Enslavement? Seriously?

More hyperbole.

Re: Give Snowden his due: He made a surveillance debate possible

#62
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sigh Assange didn't hang Manning out to dry, Adrian Lamo betrayed Manning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Lamo#WikiLeaks_and_Brad... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Manning#Manning_and_Ad...

I highly encourage you to go read Manning's statement that he gave as part of his guilty pleas before the trial, where he talks about the 'relationship' he thought he had with Assange, and the relationship he actually had with Assange.

If you have a link to a transcript of Manning's actual words, I would be interested in it. The best I can find is this article from Wired: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/02/bradley-manning/ which says things like:

"Only after Manning gave WikiLeaks the video of the Apache assault in Baghdad shortly thereafter did he start to hear back from someone in the IRC using the handle “Ox.” He believed that Ox was “likely Julian Assange” or Assange’s then-second-in-command, “Daniel Schmitt” — the German activist Daniel Domscheit-Berg. Shortly thereafter, Manning encouraged Ox to use a different handle to contact him, “Nathaniel,” after the author Nathaniel Frank.

Manning said his ensuing discussions with “Nathaniel,” often about the classified material, became friendly, enjoyable and long. “In retrospect, I realize these dynamics were artificial,” Manning continued. “They were valued more to me than Nathaniel.”"

and

"But Manning said that no one at WikiLeaks ever encouraged him to leak — which may be significant, if the U.S. government is, as rumored, considering charging Assange in connection to the leaks.

“No one associated with the WLO [WikiLeaks Organization] pressured me to give them more information,” Manning said. “The decision to give documents to WikiLeaks [was] mine alone.”"

and

"...Manning said he first tried to take his information to the Washington Post, the New York Times and Politico, before contacting WikiLeaks."

and

"“I never hid the fact that I downloaded copies of CIDNE-I and CIDNE-A” and burned them onto CDs, Manning said, even labeling and storing them “in the open” in his unit’s tactical operations center. Nor did he hide that he also downloaded compression software to facilitate the transfer, Manning said."

and

"In each of these cases, Manning denied that he was compromising national security. The military activities in Iraq and Afghanistan were often “historic,” with its intelligence value perishable after “48 to 72 hours.” The Guantanamo Bay documents had “no useful intelligence” and did not disclose any results of detainee interrogations. The State Department cables were available to “thousands” of people throughout the government. A Washington Post reporter, David Finkel, had already written about a deadly Apache helicopter attack in 2007, in which civilians were killed, that Manning viewed on video."

I know that most news organizations have a slant to their reporting. Please do find me the transcript of Manning's statement so that I can see where he gives the impression that he was hung out to dry by either Wikileaks, or Assange himself.

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