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Yugoslavs Find No Paradise at McDonald's (1988)

articles.latimes.com

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Re: Yugoslavs Find No Paradise at McDonald's (1988)

#61

Post by dsego »

jotm wrote: post #57
Vivtek wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, to be fair, anywhere the Habsburgs ruled is like this because that's the way their empire worked. You could only get rich by exploiting others or engaging in corruption - or be born into it because your ancestors did that.

I think it was the communism - it was a really bad economic system that was so out of touch with the reality of human beings and the past thousand years that people had no other choice but to engage in corruption (bypassing the system).

It's not that simple. To read more about the economy there visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Socialist_Federa...

Re: Yugoslavs Find No Paradise at McDonald's (1988)

#62

Post by lucisferre »

skylan_q wrote: post #24
edw519 wrote: post #9

According to a recent domestic survey, average Yugoslavs work efficiently for only half of their eight-hour workday. The rest of the time is spent reading newspapers, conducting private business or having interminable private chats with colleagues over coffee. According to a recent domestic survey, average I.T. managers work efficiently for only 10% of their eight-hour workday. The rest of the time is spent reading e…

Some disclosure: I've been born and raised in Canada and my parents are immigrants from the former Yugoslavia. I've taken many extended trips back home and I have to say that "working efficiently for only half of their eight-hour workday" is overstating their efficiency. Socialism destroyed work ethic in Yugoslavia amongst other things. The villagers and farmers were the only ones who had any work ethic left as they…

I find it interesting how quickly you jumped to the conclusion that "socialism" is to blame.

Re: Yugoslavs Find No Paradise at McDonald's (1988)

#63

Post by lucisferre »

This article has literally zero substance and seems to be entirely circumstantial. A single interview with one Yugoslav about a single business. A ridiculous claims this has something to do with watching dynasty.

Unless of course you put a lot of stock in the "according to a recent survey" part.

I'm actually surprised how many people appear to be discussing this seriously, or why this was even submitted. Can anyone explain what is interesting about this?

Re: Yugoslavs Find No Paradise at McDonald's (1988)

#64

Post by tokenadult »

I really liked this article. It's startling to someone as old as I am to realize that many Hacker News participants are too young to remember Yugoslavia as an intact country. In general, the transition from regimes in eastern Europe controlled by national Communist parties (whether part of the Warsaw Pact or not) to the current melange of national governments in a larger number of countries in that region is already a distant memory or unknown to many young people, while still remembered as an unimaginable future possibility to people my age.

On the subject of the first McDonald's restaurant in a country, my wife (who grew up in Taiwan) and I went (on my suggestion) to the opening day of the first McDonald's in Taiwan in early 1984. We waited in line outdoors at least an HOUR, and when we finally got into the restaurant, the workers inside all looked shocked at the number of customers still in line to order. People in Taiwan are used to working hard, but that was a level of intensity of desire for a particular restaurant's food that was baffling to the young new hires there. I think everyone in Taiwan who had ever been to any country with a McDonald's, both locals and expatriates, were there to see what a local McDonald's would look like.

After my newlywed wife had her first McDonald's hamburger, she asked her American husband why I went to the trouble of waiting in line so long for such indifferent food. That was sheer nostalgia on my part--by then I had been away from the United States for two years. Here in the United States, I can and do go two years at a time without eating a McDonald's hamburger, just because I can. But felt I had to have the hamburger in Taiwan at my first opportunity, just because I couldn't before. I think for a while that McDonald's store in Taipei had the worldwide record for highest weekly gross sales of any McDonald's location, eventually to be surpassed by the first-ever McDonald's in some other country. You can now get good service from diligent young workers in a McDonald's all over Taiwan.

Re: Yugoslavs Find No Paradise at McDonald's (1988)

#65

Post by muyuu »

lucisferre wrote: post #62
skylan_q wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some disclosure: I've been born and raised in Canada and my parents are immigrants from the former Yugoslavia. I've taken many extended trips back home and I have to say that "working efficiently for only half of their eight-hour workday" is overstating their efficiency. Socialism destroyed work ethic in Yugoslavia amongst other things. The villagers and farmers were the only ones who had any work ethic left as they…

I find it interesting how quickly you jumped to the conclusion that "socialism" is to blame.

It's no coincidence that all (ex-)paternalistic nanny States show this kind of problem.

Re: Yugoslavs Find No Paradise at McDonald's (1988)

#66

Post by [deleted] »

babuskov wrote: post #49

The article, and all the comments here are missing the main reason for this behavior. I'm 36 now, and I live in Serbia. When Socialism was ruling, all the companies were owned and run by the state. The wages were determined by the company you work for. Difference in wage for same position in some non-profitable company and a profitable one, would easily be 20x. So, the only thing that mattered was not your knowledge,…

[deleted]

Re: Yugoslavs Find No Paradise at McDonald's (1988)

#67

Post by mladenkovacevic »

babuskov wrote: post #49

The article, and all the comments here are missing the main reason for this behavior. I'm 36 now, and I live in Serbia. When Socialism was ruling, all the companies were owned and run by the state. The wages were determined by the company you work for. Difference in wage for same position in some non-profitable company and a profitable one, would easily be 20x. So, the only thing that mattered was not your knowledge,…

Ah yes the good value system... Work like a dog for the mere privilege of sustaining yourself by working like a dog. Then have a bunch of babies so they too can enjoy being being exploited when they enter the workforce. Yes things will be much better in 5-10 years when Germans teach us what it means to work hard. You think Mc Donalds and other foreign companies will establish a framework whereby it's employees can eventually lift themselves out of poverty? Get real.

Re: Yugoslavs Find No Paradise at McDonald's (1988)

#68

Post by mietek »

jotm wrote: post #57
Vivtek wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, to be fair, anywhere the Habsburgs ruled is like this because that's the way their empire worked. You could only get rich by exploiting others or engaging in corruption - or be born into it because your ancestors did that.

I think it was the communism - it was a really bad economic system that was so out of touch with the reality of human beings and the past thousand years that people had no other choice but to engage in corruption (bypassing the system).

There's the communist revolution, which gave power to people who were not fit to wield it. There's the dekulakization, which liquidated millions of people who knew what they were doing. Then there's the forced collectivisation...

Re: Yugoslavs Find No Paradise at McDonald's (1988)

#69

Post by mtrimpe »

tokenadult wrote: post #64

I really liked this article. It's startling to someone as old as I am to realize that many Hacker News participants are too young to remember Yugoslavia as an intact country. In general, the transition from regimes in eastern Europe controlled by national Communist parties (whether part of the Warsaw Pact or not) to the current melange of national governments in a larger number of countries in that region is already…

That reminds me of how one of my favourite memories of the Czech Republic was seeing young couples having romantic dinner dates in McDonalds.

It actually took me several weeks to understand that to them the McDonalds was a special place; an affordable restaurant with an air of foreign mystique ...

Re: Yugoslavs Find No Paradise at McDonald's (1988)

#70

Post by mtrimpe »

ivanhoe wrote: post #39

Explanation is easy, but understandably it's very hard for an American to grasp such a concept of life. People in Yugoslavia didn't work a lot, it's true, but not because of some lazy Sloven mentality, but because they simply didn't have to. And it even didn't make much sense to work hard in socialism, because you could work a little or you could work a lot, at the end of the month you would still earn the same salar…

This rings so true from what I took away from living in another ex-communist country (Czech Republic.)

Very few people understand that for most people life was pretty good in Soviet times.

It just turned out people preferred the outcome of a having a little less comfort and a bit more progress, which is what really drove the Soviet collapse in the end.

It was kept propped up by purposefully (and often viciously) keeping the populace ignorant of the progress made beyond it's borders, but in the end the allure of the shiny and new behind the curtain won.

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