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Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

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Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#61

Post by [deleted] »

jlgreco wrote: post #52
Kylekramer wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine the fear of not being able to provide for you or your family takes precedence over privacy concerns for the vast majority of people. There was a news report about how 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck last week. I'd argue saying "they could leave" assumes a lot.

I thought the NSA hires only the best and the brightest. Why would they have such a difficult time finding new jobs? Hell, I would even consider having "NSA xxxx - summer of 2013" on your resume to be an indicator that you are a person with backbone and a sense of morality. Bonus points right there.

[deleted]

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#62

Post by Kylekramer »

jlgreco wrote: post #52
Kylekramer wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine the fear of not being able to provide for you or your family takes precedence over privacy concerns for the vast majority of people. There was a news report about how 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck last week. I'd argue saying "they could leave" assumes a lot.

I thought the NSA hires only the best and the brightest. Why would they have such a difficult time finding new jobs? Hell, I would even consider having "NSA xxxx - summer of 2013" on your resume to be an indicator that you are a person with backbone and a sense of morality. Bonus points right there.

Maybe I am way off base, but I wasn't under the impression college recruiters were in a position of power when it comes to employment.

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#63

Post by electic »

Kylekramer wrote: post #33
mikeash wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no sympathy. They willingly represent the organization. Nobody is forcing them to stay. They could leave, but they don't, thus implicitly accepting it.

I imagine the fear of not being able to provide for you or your family takes precedence over privacy concerns for the vast majority of people. There was a news report about how 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck last week. I'd argue saying "they could leave" assumes a lot.

You do not have to sell your soul to feed your family. Trust me, they can get another job. The reality is the pay is good and these people do not care what their organization does.

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#64

Post by gojomo »

mikeash wrote: post #17
hkmurakami wrote: post #4

I have some sympathy for the recruiters since they really have no say in the high level decision making in the organization. They may not even be involved with domestic spying of citizens. But on the other hand they continue to stay at the organization so while I do feel some sympathy for their predicament,I guess it's really just up to each person to figure out whether they're really okay with staying there, given a…

I have no sympathy. They willingly represent the organization. Nobody is forcing them to stay. They could leave, but they don't, thus implicitly accepting it.

Quitting in disgust is one signal a person can send.

But what if that makes the problem worse rather than better, by removing from the agency those people most able to sense and push-back against secret abuses?

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#65

Post by jlgreco »

Kylekramer wrote: post #62
jlgreco wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the NSA hires only the best and the brightest. Why would they have such a difficult time finding new jobs? Hell, I would even consider having "NSA xxxx - summer of 2013" on your resume to be an indicator that you are a person with backbone and a sense of morality. Bonus points right there.

Maybe I am way off base, but I wasn't under the impression college recruiters were in a position of power when it comes to employment.

I don't see why not; everybody is hiring straight from colleges these days. Who couldn't use another good recruiter?

I don't believe for one instant that these are people just desperately trying to feed their starving family. They have options, they choose to stay on.

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#66

Post by rhizome »

colanderman wrote: post #56
ajuc wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even atheists must do the part with God?

I'd be surprised if the three-letter agencies don't screen out atheists. They screen in Mormons [1]. [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/11-surprising-things-you-didn...

Then again, "Business Insider," and a number-of-things article.

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#68

Post by robbiemitchell »

DannyBee wrote: post #34
robbiemitchell wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Attorneys defend guilty people not simply because it's their job, but because they defend the right to due process and a fair trial. Everyone, even (privately) guilty people, is afforded these rights.

I'm sorry, what? The purpose of a trial is to determine guilt or innocence beyond a reasonable doubt. If they admit they are guilty, are not insane, etc, please explain what end this serves again? Let's ignore the edge cases of being committing violations of unjust laws, malum prohibitum crimes, and stick with something like: Client accused of murdering 40 year old woman Client admits to you he murdered 40 year old w…

Yes, the purpose of the trial itself is to determine guilt or innocence. I'm suggesting that the purpose of a legal system like ours is to ensure everyone's right to a fair trial in the first place; more generally, our goal is to ensure that innocent people are not put in jail. Defense lawyers make sure that guilt, if determined, is done legally and that sentencing is arrived at fairly.

If a defendant wants to skip the trial and admit guilt, that's a different matter.

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#69

Post by md224 »

gojomo wrote: post #64
mikeash wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no sympathy. They willingly represent the organization. Nobody is forcing them to stay. They could leave, but they don't, thus implicitly accepting it.

Quitting in disgust is one signal a person can send. But what if that makes the problem worse rather than better, by removing from the agency those people most able to sense and push-back against secret abuses?

Definitely a thorny issue... I think it comes down to weighing your potential for positive influence vs. the (in)direct damage being done by your role or the organization overall.

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#70

Post by rhizome »

Kylekramer wrote: post #33
mikeash wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no sympathy. They willingly represent the organization. Nobody is forcing them to stay. They could leave, but they don't, thus implicitly accepting it.

I imagine the fear of not being able to provide for you or your family takes precedence over privacy concerns for the vast majority of people. There was a news report about how 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck last week. I'd argue saying "they could leave" assumes a lot.

If only there was a climate of rampant unemployment among highly-skilled technical people. You're not talking about fast-food workers.
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