So, in summary, the difference between a patriot and a traitor is just PR. Pun intended.
I don't get this pun---can you explain?
It's almost an anagram: patriot -> traitoP, so replace 'p' with 'r'. So the difference is literally the letters PR.
More Americans see man who leaked NSA secrets as 'patriot' than traitor
61–70 of 82 posts
Re: More Americans see man who leaked NSA secrets as 'patriot' than traitor
#62What really pisses me off is that Democrats seem to support Obama in anything he does; half of them think this kind of shit is perfectly fine, likely because their team is the one doing it. Really sorely disappointing.
Yeah, that's absolutely true. And the other half has John McCain and Lindsey Graham saying they're ok with it and they think these programs are necessary. We have two parties, and zero choices. Our country is fucked.
Reminds me of this extract from a Simpsons episode: http://www.flickr.com/photos/giddygirlie/2987270819/
Re: More Americans see man who leaked NSA secrets as 'patriot' than traitor
#63Surprise: press has large effect on what people think was actually leaked. I'm sure 99% of those interviewed have no idea what he actually leaked entailed. I'd be more interested in a study that asked people if they knew what they were actually outraged about. A majority of the insinuations of the original "leak" have since been retracted and those actually following the details of the story have no belief that there…
> Real opinion pieces that actually ask the hard questions like "should the government know less than Google" are all but ignored Maybe most people on HN don't consider that a hard question? At the very least, I consider it an ill-stated question. I think something a little more transparent would be better: at what point must a company forfeit all knowledge to the government? And when you put it that way, it really d…
What would your answer be?
At what point do you think a company should be required to forfeit all knowledge to the government?
Re: More Americans see man who leaked NSA secrets as 'patriot' than traitor
#64What really pisses me off is that Democrats seem to support Obama in anything he does; half of them think this kind of shit is perfectly fine, likely because their team is the one doing it. Really sorely disappointing.
What are you talking about? Do you have any evidence for this? Or was it just some democrat you talked to who supported mass surveillance? You think the 30% of Americans who believe Snowden is a patriot are all non-democrats?
From a Gallup poll.
> Democrats are more likely to approve of the surveillance programs (49-40 percent), which Republicans (32-63 percent) and independents (34-56 percent) largely disapprove.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/305181-gall...
Re: More Americans see man who leaked NSA secrets as 'patriot' than traitor
#65What really pisses me off is that Democrats seem to support Obama in anything he does; half of them think this kind of shit is perfectly fine, likely because their team is the one doing it. Really sorely disappointing.
> half of them think this kind of shit is perfectly fine
Did you read the article all the way through? At the end it mentions that only 6% of all Americans think this is perfectly fine.
Re: More Americans see man who leaked NSA secrets as 'patriot' than traitor
#66What really pisses me off is that Democrats seem to support Obama in anything he does; half of them think this kind of shit is perfectly fine, likely because their team is the one doing it. Really sorely disappointing.
In the vein of "90% of everything is shit", 90% of political supporters are sheep -- the important part to remember is that this applies to your own team as well as the opposition.
Re: More Americans see man who leaked NSA secrets as 'patriot' than traitor
#67Surprise: press has large effect on what people think was actually leaked. I'm sure 99% of those interviewed have no idea what he actually leaked entailed. I'd be more interested in a study that asked people if they knew what they were actually outraged about. A majority of the insinuations of the original "leak" have since been retracted and those actually following the details of the story have no belief that there…
Yes, actually.
I'm not an American. Which means that I am glad that there's finally some media outrage concerning privacy in general, because it was already public knowledge for months (with no leaks necessary) that the EU agreed the NSA could tap any EU-citizen's data in the US (or under the jurisdiction of).
For some reason this went by without barely a squeak[0].
In fact, a great many transgressions on our privacy (concerning both US and the EU and probably the World) went by without a squeak.
There is enough to be outraged about, even without knowing what this leak exactly entails. The important point is, it has the public's attention. And if the overwhelming majority of people are not okay with unlimited surveillance, isn't that a good thing? As you say, popular support going forward? It's about time, didn't you think?
[0] In the news media. Some organisations definitely took notice and adjusted their dependence on US data storage accordingly.
Re: More Americans see man who leaked NSA secrets as 'patriot' than traitor
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Real opinion pieces that actually ask the hard questions like "should the government know less than Google" are all but ignored Maybe most people on HN don't consider that a hard question? At the very least, I consider it an ill-stated question. I think something a little more transparent would be better: at what point must a company forfeit all knowledge to the government? And when you put it that way, it really d…
What would your answer be? At what point do you think a company should be required to forfeit all knowledge to the government?
Let me guess, you're not trolling, you're "genuinely curious".
Re: More Americans see man who leaked NSA secrets as 'patriot' than traitor
#69Surprise: press has large effect on what people think was actually leaked. I'm sure 99% of those interviewed have no idea what he actually leaked entailed. I'd be more interested in a study that asked people if they knew what they were actually outraged about. A majority of the insinuations of the original "leak" have since been retracted and those actually following the details of the story have no belief that there…
Yes, actually. I'm not an American. Which means that I am glad that there's finally some media outrage concerning privacy in general, because it was already public knowledge for months (with no leaks necessary) that the EU agreed the NSA could tap any EU-citizen's data in the US (or under the jurisdiction of). For some reason this went by without barely a squeak[0]. In fact, a great many transgressions on our privacy…
By the way, the new EU data protection (i.e., privacy) directive is being written _right now_ and consumer representatives (or activists) report that there is a massive lobbying effort underway to weaken current privacy standards. Given the revelations of recent days, now might be a good time to support those that want a stronger data protection directive.
Re: More Americans see man who leaked NSA secrets as 'patriot' than traitor
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, actually. I'm not an American. Which means that I am glad that there's finally some media outrage concerning privacy in general, because it was already public knowledge for months (with no leaks necessary) that the EU agreed the NSA could tap any EU-citizen's data in the US (or under the jurisdiction of). For some reason this went by without barely a squeak[0]. In fact, a great many transgressions on our privacy…
By the way, the new EU data protection (i.e., privacy) directive is being written _right now_ and consumer representatives (or activists) report that there is a massive lobbying effort underway to weaken current privacy standards. Given the revelations of recent days, now might be a good time to support those that want a stronger data protection directive.
> now might be a good time to support those that want a stronger data protection directive.
I already donate to Bits of Freedom and the Dutch Pirate Party (actually I need to double check the latter) since quite a while, but I'm not sure how that directly helps an EU directive being written right now.
Any ideas? EU stuff is notoriously "far away" and hard to reach or affect (which is the one thing I really dislike about the EU, they silently passed some ridiculous things that would never fly in NL).