Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

If the NSA Trusted Edward Snowden With Our Data, Why Should We Trust the NSA?

slate.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 84 posts

Re: If the NSA Trusted Edward Snowden With Our Data, Why Should We Trust the NSA?

#61

Post by [deleted] »

gyardley wrote: post #49
adventured wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He had no choice but to go public. His only shot at not being disappeared, killed, tortured, etc was to go public. By going public, he's also encouraging others to do the same. Even if it's just the smallest amount, it matters.

This is total fantasy. The government has and follows an established procedure for dealing with whistleblowers, including anonymous ones they manage to uncover - they'll conduct an investigation, file a complaint, arrest him, and then get an indictment.

[deleted]

Re: If the NSA Trusted Edward Snowden With Our Data, Why Should We Trust the NSA?

#62

Post by CamperBob2 »

gyardley wrote: post #49
adventured wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He had no choice but to go public. His only shot at not being disappeared, killed, tortured, etc was to go public. By going public, he's also encouraging others to do the same. Even if it's just the smallest amount, it matters.

This is total fantasy. The government has and follows an established procedure for dealing with whistleblowers, including anonymous ones they manage to uncover - they'll conduct an investigation, file a complaint, arrest him, and then get an indictment.

Do you call what Manning experienced an "established procedure?"

Re: If the NSA Trusted Edward Snowden With Our Data, Why Should We Trust the NSA?

#63

Post by CamperBob2 »

freepipi wrote: post #32
gridmaths wrote: post #18

Wrong Question. A better Question is : If the Government trusted the NSA with our every phone call and email, why should we trust the Government?

Is it really harmful if government get your call and email?

It depends. If you're an American citizen, you break several laws every day, as do the rest of us. Which laws "count," and who decides?

They don't want to be able to arrest everyone. They want to be able to arrest anyone. Data collection processes like Prism are an important tool.

Re: If the NSA Trusted Edward Snowden With Our Data, Why Should We Trust the NSA?

#64

Post by burnstek »

In my university, we had a computer security program where computer scientists were heavily recruited to work for the DoD for a few years in exchange for a scholarship. One of the students I knew who ended up at the NSA was a standout, but the many others I knew were of average intellect and in many cases were below average computer scientists. These are not the level of people you want involved in mass surveillance programs.

What matters most to the NSA is your ability to pass a polygraph - not your engineering skills.

Re: If the NSA Trusted Edward Snowden With Our Data, Why Should We Trust the NSA?

#65

Post by dkrich »

untog wrote: post #53
SeanDav wrote: post #7

So now lack of a degree means you cannot be trusted with sensitive data - wtf? I understand the guy is emphasizing these things to make his point but still, wtf. What about his morals? What about his courage? I would most definitely trust my data to a guy that was and is prepared to go to jail for his beliefs that my data should be treated with respect and within the law.

What about his morals? What about his courage? I don't think the NSA would be using the same words you are. The more legitimate point is that he was a contractor- just how much clearance do contractors get? That seems like the bigger worry to me.

A lot. But first they have to go through extremely invasive and intense background checks that in some cases take years to complete. It all depends on the agency and the role. Some are "Public Trust" which is the barely-above civilian clearance which takes less than a month. On the other end of the spectrum are your top-secret clearances which take months to years to complete. If I had to place a wager I would bet heavily that he has held a top-secret clearance for a long time. The NSA isn't going to let anybody off the street roam its halls.

Re: If the NSA Trusted Edward Snowden With Our Data, Why Should We Trust the NSA?

#66

Post by sliverstorm »

known_unknowns wrote: post #57
ritchiea wrote: post #30

All of the comments taking umbrage that the article isn't celebrating Snowden's character are missing the point. While it is entirely possible that he was qualified or even overqualified for the position he had at Booz Allen Hamilton, nothing in his resume suggests that which raises the question who else has access to sensitive data and secrets? The answer could be that Snowden was an exceptional individual and that'…

The security clearance process basically looks for reasonable, honest Americans free of foreign influence. If government actors are abusing their power to such an extent that reasonable, honest Americans free of foreign influence feel morally obligated to blow the whistle, then there are going to be more leaks. It's not a flaw in the system; It's a safeguard against corruption and abuse of the system.

That's not what is being discussed here. What is being discussed is the leaker doesn't appear to be a standout individual. He isn't the top of his field. He doesn't have numerous advanced degrees. So on and so forth. He is "garden variety". So, given that, if a "garden variety employee" can get access to all this data, just how many ordinary Joes have access to it? The more people, particularly those low on the totem pole, the more opportunity for leaks to the wrong people.

Re: If the NSA Trusted Edward Snowden With Our Data, Why Should We Trust the NSA?

#67

Post by lurker14 »

obstacle1 wrote: post #35
gkoberger wrote: post #25

I don't think Slate is trying to crucify Edward Snowden. I think it was more "If a high school dropout with basic computer skills can win this contract, imagine what a talented hacker with malicious intentions could do", and just happened to attack Snowden a bit too much.

Even Slate admits, though, that they have no idea what level his computer skills are at or how good a fit he was for the job: >Yes, he could be a computing savant anyway—many well-known techies dropped out of school They're basically bemoaning his lack of official credentials.

This appears to be a rare case where the headline is a meaningful statement (If an NSA contractor violates NSA's infosec, how can we trust the NSA with ours?) while the article is sensationalist tripe, focusing on an irrelevant angle.

Re: If the NSA Trusted Edward Snowden With Our Data, Why Should We Trust the NSA?

#68

Post by lurker14 »

mieses wrote: post #52
krakensden wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note the author- essentially everything he writes is like this.

Not surprising at all coming from Slate and this author.

I don't know why Slate gets to HN so frequently. Slate doesn't publish news, they publish commentary, and the commentary is generally lower quality than what HN commenters post about the news stories.

Slate is enjoyed by people who don't have any smart friends to talk to (hence their slogan: "Procrastinate better"); it doesn't fit on a community of thinkers like HN.

Re: If the NSA Trusted Edward Snowden With Our Data, Why Should We Trust the NSA?

#69

Post by tzs »

> He was accorded the NSA’s top security clearance, which allowed him to see and to download the agency’s most sensitive documents.

Document control works on two dimensions: clearance level and need to know. You need to both have the requisite clearance level and a need to know to be approved for access to a given document. Having a top clearance doesn't mean you get to freely look at whatever you want, although the press and general public seems to think it does.

Re: If the NSA Trusted Edward Snowden With Our Data, Why Should We Trust the NSA?

#70

Post by reeses »

rdtsc wrote: post #33
thret wrote: post #3

I wouldn't be surprised if the #1 criteria for NSA grunt employees is patriotism. If he's prepared to sacrifice everything for his country than he seems to be the perfect candidate to me.

It is for CIA at least. Their tactic is that "we can teach you technical stuff in class after we hire you, we can't teach you patriotism if you already aren't". They like to hire ex-Marines. Someone was saying they also like to hire Mormons. The kink is that many patriots do actually understand and love the Constitution and if forced to routinely go against it in their line of works, a few will pull a Manning. That i…

It's not really that important for the CIA. They're pretty pragmatic, mainly because they have a huge hammer for minor offenses. They also believe in their ability to compartmentalize information.

Most of the time, when you go through the lifestyle clearance rigamarole, they're looking for any leverage someone might be able to use to coerce you to act against the employer's interests. Obviously, anti-government sentiment would be a flag, but you can get clearance by being truthful about the dishonest/illegal/etc. things you have done in the past, despite having done those things. In fact, willingness to disclose is a big trust builder.

It's about managing risk, which is why it's easy for me to believe that Marines and members of the LDS community would be given special consideration.

Post reply on HN