I don't mean to be cynical, but a mere petition is just the tip of the iceberg. This is a government agency that is commiting widespread breach of privacy. A petition will not be respected. It's an OK start, but it will be essentially meaningless. If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. Historical actions and movements that achieve some measure of peace. The ease of an action corresponds to what…
If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. Historical actions and movements that achieve some measure of peace. Do you have any backups for that? I mean, any historical proof that rioting will make change? You know, Tunisia went on a relatively peaceful revolution and now we have less freedom and more problems/unemployment. It's even worse for countries where the revolution is violent. Having lived…
Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden
61–70 of 184 posts
Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
A warrant that says "allow us to get all the data on everyone in the country, with no specific targets". That's not much of a warrant that respects the 4th amendment.
"A warrant that says 'allow us to get all the data on everyone in the country, with no specific targets'." So far, no evidence has been produced to support your assertion. In fact, all evidence in the leaked documents, official statements, etc. suggest the exact opposite: warrants are served that allow investigators to make specific searches, with oversight processes to try to reduce the number of US citizens' data i…
Obama has publicly acknowledged that phone records are being collected en masse.
In his own words: http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/06/07/transcript-what-oba...
Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just to be clear, which law was it that you think they broke? I'd happily agree what the NSA did was just as wrong as, say, making it to easy to get mortgages. But the law and morality don't always agree.
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause , supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
Playing Devil's advocate here.
The government position is that it isn't a search until they subject the data to analysis. Nor is it a seizure when you still have your data. Thus they draw a line between collecting data (making sure they have it) and actually searching it. Therefore broad data collection does not violate the 4th so long as they always get specific warrants before actually searching that data.
Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. Historical actions and movements that achieve some measure of peace. Do you have any backups for that? I mean, any historical proof that rioting will make change? You know, Tunisia went on a relatively peaceful revolution and now we have less freedom and more problems/unemployment. It's even worse for countries where the revolution is violent. Having lived…
Revolution in France in 1789. We don't learn history in school for nothing I hope.
That made change.
Not necessarily the DESIRED change, but it certainly changed things!
Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden
#65Please sign this petition now.
Upvoting and discussion on HN is important, but if 50% of the people who read this take 30 seconds to sign the petition, it could truly help.
Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden
#66A trial would be FAR better for everyone, at least if it happened openly (which it wouldn't) Imagine the US Government having to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this disclosure caused "exceptionally grave damage to US national security."
If it got that far I wouldn't be surprised if they claimed to have strong and compelling evidence of grave harm ... But cannot reveal it due to security concerns.
Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. Historical actions and movements that achieve some measure of peace. Do you have any backups for that? I mean, any historical proof that rioting will make change? You know, Tunisia went on a relatively peaceful revolution and now we have less freedom and more problems/unemployment. It's even worse for countries where the revolution is violent. Having lived…
Revolution in France in 1789. We don't learn history in school for nothing I hope.
While I agree, these are merely the exceptions. Sure, things can go great and well (after a long period of time). However, the following needs to be taken into account
1. The fatalities and economic losses
2. The high possibility that the power goes to the wrong hand.
3. The good possibility that the power doesn't change hands and we are stuck with even less freedom.
4. Revolutions make the country very vulnerable which is an opportunity for enemies.
Small and secure changes are better in my opinion. Revolutions have a high risk of going wrong.
If you asked me 3 years later, you'll get a different response. Having lived through this so-called Arab spring, I have now a very conservative view for revolution.
Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden
#68women and children women and children women and children women and children women and children women and children women and children women and children women and children women and children women and children women and children women and children women and children why won't someone think of the women and children women and children WOMEN AND CHILDREN women and children why aren't you crying yet
(referred to this thread -> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5846391)
(i'll keep posting this, enjoy)
Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you want results, riot in the streets. Civil disobeience. Historical actions and movements that achieve some measure of peace. Do you have any backups for that? I mean, any historical proof that rioting will make change? You know, Tunisia went on a relatively peaceful revolution and now we have less freedom and more problems/unemployment. It's even worse for countries where the revolution is violent. Having lived…
Revolution in France in 1789. We don't learn history in school for nothing I hope.
Wasn't that the one that introduced Robespierre and the Reign of Terror, and then later another despot? Sure, Napoleon was talented and introduced the civil code, but it was still another example of the guy with the biggest stick making the rules.
Re: Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden
#70I would sign the petition to pardon Edward Snowden but to create an account they require an email address and I didn't want that to be tracked.