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The Biggest Pivot in YC History

blog.soylent.me

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Re: The Biggest Pivot in YC History

#61

Post by buro9 »

jacquesm wrote: post #54
marknutter wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The founders of Uber were not experts in the public transportation space when they started their company. The founders of AirBnB were not experts in the hospitality industry wen they started their company. The founders of Hipmonk were not experts in travel planning when they started their company. The founders of Warby-Parker were not eyewear or vision experts when they started their company. The founder of Oculus Ri…

None of those start-ups have anywhere near the potential negative health impact that soylent has.

Makes me wonder how long they hold on to the sales pitch:

"Soylent is a simple and affordable nutritional drink that has everything the healthy body needs"

"Everything the healthy body needs"?

If I use it exclusively for a decade, will Soylent be liable for health issues arising from any potential nutritional issues?

I find the experiment interesting and don't wish to rain on the parade as I'd love to see some solution to nutrition in general (understand and communicating, figuring out a plan given height, age, sex, activity levels, dietary preferences, etc).

But I really hope the experiment stays out of the third/developing world until it's proven... if you're going to risk someone's health then at least let that be someone who has access to health care, clean water, other food, etc.

The worst thing they could do is to use the potential third world market as a sales pitch, experiment there, and then screw it up and leave people with a whole new set of problems and no recourse. Though, I guess that other industries do exactly that and treat it as an externalisation of the cost (oil industry practices, etc).

Re: The Biggest Pivot in YC History

#62

Post by DanBC2 »

marknutter wrote: post #52
DanBC2 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you don't know? Yet you're happy for them to sell it as safe for everyone, as providing optimal nutrition, as bring people to perfect health, as being tested, when we don't know if any of that is true? (And we know the tested part is a lie).

This is ridiculous reasoning. Do you think every new food product that hits the market is tested for years beforehand to make sure it doesn't kill anybody? Soylent is just food, not some new medicine.

Soylent is being sold as a complete food. We've seen a couple of mistakes during the testing process. The ingredients list is not easy to find, and the sources of those ingredients are not available, so we cannot check if it is a complete food or not.

Soylent is being sold as something that you can eat for every meal. You can argue that most people aren't going to do that, but that's how Soylent are selling it.

Soylent claim, unambiguously, that it is safe for everyone. People with Crohn's disease sometimes need to eat a liquid feed. Is Soylent safe for them? Because Soylent claim that it is safe for them, and that it'll provide them with optimum nutrition and bring them to good health.

Re: The Biggest Pivot in YC History

#63

Post by marknutter »

DanBC2 wrote: post #62
marknutter wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ridiculous reasoning. Do you think every new food product that hits the market is tested for years beforehand to make sure it doesn't kill anybody? Soylent is just food, not some new medicine.

Soylent is being sold as a complete food. We've seen a couple of mistakes during the testing process. The ingredients list is not easy to find, and the sources of those ingredients are not available, so we cannot check if it is a complete food or not. Soylent is being sold as something that you can eat for every meal. You can argue that most people aren't going to do that, but that's how Soylent are selling it. Soyle…

> Soylent is being sold as something that you can eat for every meal. You can argue that most people aren't going to do that, but that's how Soylent are selling it.

I agree with you that they should not be selling it in that way.

Re: The Biggest Pivot in YC History

#64

Post by revdinosaur »

marknutter wrote: post #46
DanBC2 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not going to kill you, or mess up your health How do you know?

Give me a break. People have gone on crazier diets for a lot longer than this guy has and not died. Steve Jobs famously went on an all fruit diet for years and did not die as a result. There are people out there who literally eat nothing but McDonalds for breakfast lunch and dinner and it takes decades for them to die. We are more resilient than you're giving us credit for.

Is it really so ridiculous to question the claims being made here, though? Also "there are crazier things than this" is an incredibly bad argument when defending a product that has, in early stages, claimed it "automatically puts you at an optimal weight, makes you feel full, and improves your focus and cognition"[1] prior to any published tests. Admittedly they have dialed back the rhetoric, but is that enough to dismiss someone asking for some demonstration of proof?

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5745707

Re: The Biggest Pivot in YC History

#65

Post by DanBC2 »

marknutter wrote: post #63
DanBC2 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soylent is being sold as a complete food. We've seen a couple of mistakes during the testing process. The ingredients list is not easy to find, and the sources of those ingredients are not available, so we cannot check if it is a complete food or not. Soylent is being sold as something that you can eat for every meal. You can argue that most people aren't going to do that, but that's how Soylent are selling it. Soyle…

> Soylent is being sold as something that you can eat for every meal. You can argue that most people aren't going to do that, but that's how Soylent are selling it. I agree with you that they should not be selling it in that way.

I apologise if I've been too harsh on Soylent. I have, previously, been strongly against Soylent. I'm against some of the techniques they're using to sell it now.

But I'm trying to be more a "critical friend" rather than just "negative". I realise that I don't yet have the right balance.

Re: The Biggest Pivot in YC History

#66

Post by pbhjpbhj »

logicallee wrote: post #6

Why doesn't soylent just pivot to being a giant blender as a service company. Then you can just select what you want to eat: like a three-course meal, everything from soup to desert. Then they just blend all that up just-in-time and ship it out to you as one disgusting mush.

A mechanical pre-digestor at-a-distance service. Interesting.

Re: The Biggest Pivot in YC History

#67

Post by pbhjpbhj »

marknutter wrote: post #46
DanBC2 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not going to kill you, or mess up your health How do you know?

Give me a break. People have gone on crazier diets for a lot longer than this guy has and not died. Steve Jobs famously went on an all fruit diet for years and did not die as a result. There are people out there who literally eat nothing but McDonalds for breakfast lunch and dinner and it takes decades for them to die. We are more resilient than you're giving us credit for.

Isn't Jobs fruitarianism considered to be a potential cause/contributor to his pancreas problems, which ultimately killed him?

The first two sentences made me think of Atkins, who I've heard (yes hearsay again) was hastened to his death by the high fat content of his low-/no-carb regime?

FWIW I'm not saying Soylent is worse than any other diet, I don't know. Just that your opposition to the parents scepticism seems a little too strong.

Re: The Biggest Pivot in YC History

#68

Post by marknutter »

DanBC2 wrote: post #65
marknutter wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Soylent is being sold as something that you can eat for every meal. You can argue that most people aren't going to do that, but that's how Soylent are selling it. I agree with you that they should not be selling it in that way.

I apologise if I've been too harsh on Soylent. I have, previously, been strongly against Soylent. I'm against some of the techniques they're using to sell it now. But I'm trying to be more a "critical friend" rather than just "negative". I realise that I don't yet have the right balance.

No worries, you do make some valid points.

Re: The Biggest Pivot in YC History

#69

Post by ksherlock »

marknutter wrote: post #44
DanBC2 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To disrupt the industry Soylent need to know what that industry is. So far I haven't seen any sign that they have any idea about what going on in that domain. There's a bunch of stuff about "Hey! What if food was a simple easy liquid?" - well, fine, except that's been in existence for many years. There's some stuff about "optimal health" - which is a bit scary when you have a bunch of people with (as far as we can se…

The founders of Uber were not experts in the public transportation space when they started their company. The founders of AirBnB were not experts in the hospitality industry wen they started their company. The founders of Hipmonk were not experts in travel planning when they started their company. The founders of Warby-Parker were not eyewear or vision experts when they started their company. The founder of Oculus Ri…

Where is the disruption? My supermarket has half an aisle full of meal replacement powders, drinks, and bars. HN (and soylent) seem to be unaware of such a thing. Does Soylent bring anything new to the table other than guerrilla marketing and willful ignorance of FDA regulations ("These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.")

Re: The Biggest Pivot in YC History

#70

Post by marknutter »

JDGM wrote: post #59
marknutter wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Delicious? I was under the impression Soylent was either fairly tasteless or mildly unpleasant-tasting. Is it really delicious? In what way? Why? How? It has quite a bit of sugar. Just go back and read the many articles that have been written by both the founders and the press.

Thanks. I've just done a google and the only person I can find describing Soylent as 'delicious' in the first few hits is Rob himself, who even says "I'm not trying to make something delicious; there are already a lot of delicious things" - that's defending Soylent's taste in this Gawker article http://gawker.com/we-drank-soylent-the-weird-food-of-the-fut... . The piece contains the following: "Soylent tastes like th…

Haha, well, at least it's not completely undrinkable :)
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