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Opera claims ex-employee took trade secrets to Mozilla, sues him for $3.4M

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Re: Opera claims ex-employee took trade secrets to Mozilla, sues him for $3.4M

#61

Post by pavanky »

fakeer wrote: post #58
pavanky wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Opera gets in bed with Google Chrome and then sues the other camp? I thought they were above all this. They are suing their former employee, not Mozilla. > Webkit, Blink and Gecko have near-parity on features, and are competing more on speed The former employee is an artist and a musician. The article says he worked on UI related stuff. None of this has anything to do with the web engine the browsers run. You are t…

Really? How do you know it's not a conspiracy theory? You don't know that and so does OP. Hell, it's not even a conspiracy theory. OP just shared his point of view, you don't agree to it, it's fine. But please don't pick bs from a comment where there's no bs. It's almost as pathetic as name calling. You are looking for a conspiracy theory? Here's one: Do you for sure know that Eric Schmidt didn't invite Opera board t…

I admit calling out OP for creating a conspiracy theory was a little bit too harsh.

That said, I did not understand a better way to put my point across. The article barely mentions Mozilla, doesn't mention Google at all. They talk about why a guy (a mozilla employee, a former Opera employee) was getting sued.

It does not talk about Opera suing Mozilla. Period. OP took that information and extrapolated it to Opera suing Mozilla because they are chums with Google now.

This is a huge jump in reasoning without any substantial evidence to point at. I am sure there is a Latin phrase for what kind of fallacy it is. I am unaware of it. But I have seen this happen in conspiracy theories, so I put it in the mildest way I could think of. If that offended anyone, I apologize.

Re: Opera claims ex-employee took trade secrets to Mozilla, sues him for $3.4M

#62

Post by DannyBee »

mpyne wrote: post #51
DannyBee wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False: The green bay packers are also a non-profit. The whole thing is a fairly weird set up designed to avoid antitrust scrutiny and taxes. The NFL org just plows any profits back into the teams.

> The whole thing is a fairly weird set up designed to avoid antitrust scrutiny Well in that regard they failed, as the Congress passed laws decades ago quite specifically exempting the professional sports leagues from antitrust claims relating to sports broadcasting rights, and that was in response to a Supreme Court ruling on the antitrust problems with the NFL. And now with the NFL Network people are looking close…

Yes, i'm acutely aware of the various antitrust exemptions. However, the structure enables them to say they make no profits, and own no market: that would be the teams. Additionally, they will say there are no damages at all, since they are a non-profit, they make no money, and have nothing to gain for themselves by committing antitrust violations. Lastly, they will say being a 501(c)(6) specifically authorizes them to be doing what they are doing.

At least their supreme court arguments were that they were operating as a single entity, "the NFL". They specifically called out their structure as being proof of this. Thus, this structure was, in part in attempt to avoid antitrust scrutiny.

It was certainly a failure, but that doesn't mean it wasn't one of the reasons they did it :)

Re: Opera claims ex-employee took trade secrets to Mozilla, sues him for $3.4M

#63

Post by stefantalpalaru »

pavanky wrote: post #42
stefantalpalaru wrote: post #19

Was the trade secret "switch to webkit"?

Did you even read the article ?

I did. Here's the relevant section:

"For the record: we have not yet had the chance to look at the lawsuit documents or discuss the specifics of the allegations and size of the claimed damages with Opera management or its lawyers, but we’ll update this post as soon as we have."

Re: Opera claims ex-employee took trade secrets to Mozilla, sues him for $3.4M

#64

Post by tripzilch »

sudhirj wrote: post #2

Opera gets in bed with Google Chrome and then sues the other camp? I thought they were above all this. Either way, an idea for a browser feature is hardly a huge industrial secret - Webkit, Blink and Gecko have near-parity on features, and are competing more on speed. How would this stand up in court? Neither Google nor Opera have anything to gain from this - what could be the economic rationale?

I'm not sure, but the phrase "early browser innovations that first saw the light of day over at Opera Software, including tabbed browsing, speed dial, mouse gestures and integrated search" might be a hint. It's hard to imagine now, but Opera had tabs years before any other browser did (maybe even from the start? I started using Opera with version 5 or 6). Opera was also first with those other features, although (iirc) not by as large of a margin as with tabs.

Re: Opera claims ex-employee took trade secrets to Mozilla, sues him for $3.4M

#65

Post by tripzilch »

easytiger wrote: post #8

Hard to say anything without hard details, but in Europe this stuff can be hard to make stick. Also this kind of actioning is distrubing from a company like opera. Death throes?

> Also this kind of actioning is distrubing from a company like opera.

> Death throes?

Yeah .. I've been an avid Opera fan for many years (since version 5 or 6), but recently a lot of things they do are turning a bit smelly ... Sad to see this happening, they're the only European (or non-US) browser. Not that I'm particularly "(euro-)nationalistic" about that, but I think diversity is a good thing.

Re: Opera claims ex-employee took trade secrets to Mozilla, sues him for $3.4M

#66

Post by sageikosa »

pyre wrote: post #29
DannyBee wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing in the article that says anything about anything related to Google Chrome.

They don't have to. The parent postulated that they are linked because they are both the result of non-technical management. Stating that this is not mentioned in the article is meaningless as a rebuttal.

Would be nice to have the postulate backed by something other than proximity in the poster's posting, and the poster's speculation, however.

While such wild speculation probably can't get you in trouble in the US of A, some European libel laws probably would require a little more than "seemed like it to me" as a reason to publish an assertion of an association.

Re: Opera claims ex-employee took trade secrets to Mozilla, sues him for $3.4M

#67

Post by neonlights »

toyg wrote: post #47
pornel wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think switch to Google's engine is the cause, it's rather another symptom of the same thing — after Jon von Tetzchner has left Opera Software has changed their priorities. Change of engine, downsizing (and old-time developers fleeing the company), and now the lawsuit to me indicate that Opera Software now favors profits over preserving company's culture, image and web standards influence. Hippies have left, s…

This. Opera is another SCO: failing in the marketplace, it will try to stay afloat with lawsuits.

Financially, at least, they're doing fine; record revenue almost every quarter.

Re: Opera claims ex-employee took trade secrets to Mozilla, sues him for $3.4M

#68

Post by pyre »

sageikosa wrote: post #66
pyre wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to. The parent postulated that they are linked because they are both the result of non-technical management. Stating that this is not mentioned in the article is meaningless as a rebuttal.

Would be nice to have the postulate backed by something other than proximity in the poster's posting, and the poster's speculation, however. While such wild speculation probably can't get you in trouble in the US of A, some European libel laws probably would require a little more than "seemed like it to me" as a reason to publish an assertion of an association.

This is an issue that I have with European libel laws. It's almost like they don't want you to be able to have an opinion and share it with people unless you feel you can back that assertion in court.

Re: Opera claims ex-employee took trade secrets to Mozilla, sues him for $3.4M

#69

Post by Joe_Knapp »

toyg wrote: post #47
pornel wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think switch to Google's engine is the cause, it's rather another symptom of the same thing — after Jon von Tetzchner has left Opera Software has changed their priorities. Change of engine, downsizing (and old-time developers fleeing the company), and now the lawsuit to me indicate that Opera Software now favors profits over preserving company's culture, image and web standards influence. Hippies have left, s…

This. Opera is another SCO: failing in the marketplace, it will try to stay afloat with lawsuits.

They have 300 million users. http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/02/13/opera-300-million-u...

Not exactly SCO.

Re: Opera claims ex-employee took trade secrets to Mozilla, sues him for $3.4M

#70

Post by hga »

fakeer wrote: post #57
sudhirj wrote: post #2

Opera gets in bed with Google Chrome and then sues the other camp? I thought they were above all this. Either way, an idea for a browser feature is hardly a huge industrial secret - Webkit, Blink and Gecko have near-parity on features, and are competing more on speed. How would this stand up in court? Neither Google nor Opera have anything to gain from this - what could be the economic rationale?

FastMail users might find this Opera a little less pleasant to the ears. Just an observation not related to the browser.

Good point; from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5629255, if the sued employee is even vaguely telling the truth, unless Norwegian trade secret law is vastly different from US they don't vaguely have a case.

Then again, the cheapest way for him to win this battle is in the public arena; without the particulars of their complaint, which we'll hopefully soon learn about, it's hard to say.

But I can say it's never a good sign when a company starts to compete in the courtrooms.

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