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Physicists To Test If Universe Is A Computer Simulation

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Re: Physicists To Test If Universe Is A Computer Simulation

#61

Post by visarga »

That and the Finely Tuned Universe Paradox (the Goldilocks Enigma) is why I can't easily consider myself an atheist. I mean, chances are, this universe is "intelligently designed", in the most literal sense. I call it the "Alien God Hypothesis". It's probable that a race of aliens has mastered the "world creation mechanism", either by simulation or by physical hacking (who knows, maybe they can control black holes and create baby universes inside with just the right conditions for life).

At some point down the line there must be a purely physical universe though, but we're probably not there, but in one of the branches. So while I am not atheist in a pure sense, I am not a theist either. Nice, isn't it? Science makes almost full circle to religion. The IDers are almost right.

Re: Physicists To Test If Universe Is A Computer Simulation

#62

Post by aswanson »

nate_martin wrote: post #53

I've always thought that quantum theory provided some decent evidence for this. Instead of always computing every value for every result, the universe does so only when things are "observed", saving on computation.

Why would "saving" be valued, metaphysically?

Re: Physicists To Test If Universe Is A Computer Simulation

#63

Post by marcosdumay »

nate_martin wrote: post #53

I've always thought that quantum theory provided some decent evidence for this. Instead of always computing every value for every result, the universe does so only when things are "observed", saving on computation.

Quantum mechanics certaninly leads to a very informatic view of the Universe...

The problem is that this is human bias. You can describe any theory by information manipulation, and it is as good a description as any other.

Re: Physicists To Test If Universe Is A Computer Simulation

#64

Post by hcarvalhoalves »

darxius wrote: post #51
hcarvalhoalves wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this theory (the universe is a simulation) is that it's a tautology. You cannot prove or disprove it, and for practical reasons it changes nothing if you assert it's true. What is really being researched is whether the universe is computable , because that's something you can prove.

If they can prove the universe is computable and that we would (given the resources) create a simulation of our own, wouldn't that lend credence to the idea that we would be in a simulation as well? I see what you mean though, it would be impossible (with our current understanding of ... everything) to actually determine is we're in a sim or not.

The point is, to determine whether "this" universe is a simulation or not, you would need to look after a special characteristic that differentiates it from a "parent" universe.

If you prove the universe is computable, that still doesn't give you any answer whether it's a simulation or not.

As it stands, the theory is a tautology, because that's just proving the universe is something that it is.

Re: Physicists To Test If Universe Is A Computer Simulation

#66

Post by Aldream »

Reminded me of an excerpt of "La Révolution des fourmis" ("The Revolution of the Ants", 1996) by the french writer Bernard Werber, in which students run such a simulation (named InfraWorld), until "simulated scientists" uncover the truth of their condition, leading to mass hysteria and eventually the collapse of their civilization...

Re: Physicists To Test If Universe Is A Computer Simulation

#67

Post by jerf »

JackFr wrote: post #59

"The theory basically goes that any civilisation which could evolve to a 'post-human' stage would almost certainly learn to run simulations on the scale of a universe. And that given the size of reality - billions of worlds, around billions of suns - it is fairly likely that if this is possible, it has already happened." That sounds distinctly like Anselm's ontological proof for the existence of God, and thus likely…

If you want to take on a non-strawman version of the argument, check out benhammer's links below.

That said, I do often feel that at the literal edges of our universe (in all the senses of that term), our uncertainties simply dominate everything and all of our guesses about the true nature of reality are dominated by that uncertainty. Something (or, depending, multiple somethings) must be true for some value of true, but I'm skeptical if we can discover it. If it popped up and simply flat-out told us what the truth was somehow (the Great Simulator writing the message in the stars [1]), we probably couldn't confirm it.

[1]: http://lesswrong.com/lw/qk/that_alien_message/

Re: Physicists To Test If Universe Is A Computer Simulation

#68

Post by rdmcfee »

I wonder if the civilization creating the simulation would have motivations beyond just doing this because they can. Perhaps with the benefits of a vastly accelerated timescale a simulation could be used for predictive purposes.

As for simulations within simulations. If we are in a simulation and our "program" is permitted to run long enough by it's creators we will most certainly find out :)

Re: Physicists To Test If Universe Is A Computer Simulation

#69

Post by Xcelerate »

nate_martin wrote: post #53

I've always thought that quantum theory provided some decent evidence for this. Instead of always computing every value for every result, the universe does so only when things are "observed", saving on computation.

No, it doesn't really work that way. A wavefunction is based upon a configuration space and you can't just neglect part of it or you'll get inaccurate results.

Re: Physicists To Test If Universe Is A Computer Simulation

#70

Post by adventured »

It's just my opinion, but I believe the scope has been mistaken. People have had a tendency to miss on scale throughout history in regards to both the micro and macro spheres.

What we call the universe today, I believe there may be a trillion of them (connected in the same way that galaxies are). They're so large and so far apart, we still don't realize it yet. I believe we've missed on the macro scale just like we did on the micro scale in discovering the tiny world of atoms etc. I believe we'll figure this out in the next hundred years as our optics and data gathering become far more advanced.

In this scenario, if there are just 10 civilizations per 'universe' - there would still be billions or trillions of civilizations, and they would almost never meet due to the extreme scale involved (by the time you could attempt to explore your universe, it has already begun killing you off by imploding).

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