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Bitcoin Now Worth $1B

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Re: Bitcoin Now Worth $1B

#61

Post by noname123 »

cel wrote: post #52
noname123 wrote: post #15

Anyone know if there is a good bitcoin futures/options market with good liquidity? The vol on this asset class is out of this world and given that it's so new, pricing on these things must be so out of wack that it'll be good to exploit. Only if there's a good futures exchange like Mt.Gox that's very very authoritative. And also important for the bitcoin infrastructure, that way merchants will take bitcoins for less…

ICBIT has futures trading. https://icbit.se/ Bitfinex allows margin trading and lending. https://bitfinex.com/

Ty for link ICBIT futures has no liquidity.

Bitfinex's current best lending rate is at 200% APY, or 0.54%/day with maximum lend-out window of 7 days. Making most futures and options delta-hedging trades, even if ICBIT had liquidity probably not profitable.

To compare, current US broker margin rate is 1.8% APY or 0.004%/day. Will stick to regular exchanges until this is fixed or if there is an ETF for BTC in regular exchanges.

Re: Bitcoin Now Worth $1B

#62

Post by asciimo »

nym wrote: post #40

If you're trying to figure out how to buy bitcoins, check this out: http://howdoyoubuybitcoins.com/ I recommend Bitfloor at the moment because they offer free capitolone360 transfers as well as cash deposits at local banks for only 1%. If you're an accreted investor, check out http://tradehill.com/

I only see Bank of America options for deposits to Bitfloor. That entails filling out a deposit slip to Bitfloor's account at a local branch.

UPDATE: PEBCAK. That's for the default "cash" tab in the UI. There are also "wire" and "CapitalOne 360 P2P" tabs. Thanks for the tip!

Re: Bitcoin Now Worth $1B

#63

Post by knowaveragejoe »

nym wrote: post #47
knowaveragejoe wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is a misinformed question, but isn't the reason anyone is adopting it at all due to the fact they can later convert it back into actual currency?

I believe the reasons are that it's A) decentralized B) portable C) easy for businesses to adopt The liquidity part of it is a big factor, but we've had pretty good liquidity for a while if you're willing to do a bank wire or trade with someone in person.

Those features are all well and good, but the only reason a business would be interested in accepting them is because they can convert it back into . There aren't enough other businesses accepting bitcoins, especially ones providing complex/critical services, for them to simply accept bitcoins with the expectation of using the bitcoins themselves for further trade.

Re: Bitcoin Now Worth $1B

#64

Post by tocomment »

citricsquid wrote: post #17
xoail wrote: post #2

Bitcoin definitely has potential. I doubt if it's in a bubble. Its a right mix of need and want for the global economy. It is also getting a lot of traction. As more enterprises adopt, the more its potential for disruption. [Disclaimer: I have bitcoins in my wallet]

The thing that makes me apprehensive about Bitcoin is that the majority of people that are buying in are buying in as speculators (edit: the people I've seen discuss Bitcoin), they're buying in because they think in a year or so the coins will be worth $1,000 each and they'll get to cash out, reddit is full of people labelling themselves Bitcoin millionaires. There's a disincentive to spend Bitcoins at the moment whi…

A lot of merchants are giving 25% or more discounts when paying with bitcoin. That's a way to factor the appreciation of the currency into the price and encourage spending.

Re: Bitcoin Now Worth $1B

#65

Post by knowaveragejoe »

AdmiralBeotch wrote: post #36
undershirt wrote: post #20

That's a lot of money. What is this $1 billion being used for? Is this money just circulating for the sake of making more money, or is it being used to buy goods and services?

Most is probably being used for savings as the potential for it to increase in value over years is ridiculously high. If bitcoin succeeds in taking over fractions of global markets, which is is poised to certainly do because of its efficiencies, then the market cap will be hundreds of billions, and valued above several thousand dollars each. But, bitcoins are being used in commerce too. New merchants added every day.…

The success of bitcoin in taking over fractions of global markets also depends on its learning curve, both in how to use them and how to keep your bitcoins safe(while still having access to them everywhere you need). Right now that's a pretty steep learning curve for non-technical folks.

Re: Bitcoin Now Worth $1B

#67

Post by jiggy2011 »

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #63
nym wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the reasons are that it's A) decentralized B) portable C) easy for businesses to adopt The liquidity part of it is a big factor, but we've had pretty good liquidity for a while if you're willing to do a bank wire or trade with someone in person.

Those features are all well and good, but the only reason a business would be interested in accepting them is because they can convert it back into . There aren't enough other businesses accepting bitcoins, especially ones providing complex/critical services, for them to simply accept bitcoins with the expectation of using the bitcoins themselves for further trade.

It depends, it's value is to some extent determined by an expectation of the amount of businesses that will begin to accept it for some things which is a factor again determined by it's expected value.

In other words it will hit an equilibrium value where the price modifiers in both directions balance each other, but nobody knows what that is.

Think it more like how the value of a futures contract might be determined.

Re: Bitcoin Now Worth $1B

#68

Post by cantankerous »

oleganza wrote: post #32
cantankerous wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The exchange rate in USD has quintupled since mid January. I can't see how this is not a bubble.

Bitcoin is not some promise of a future product. It is already here, it works, it survived hackers, viruses, bugs in core software, it is not attacked by anyone (FinCEN guidelines suggest you can do whatever you want with BTC unless you exchange for cash), number of services and merchants accepting BTC grows. Why shouldn't it grow exponentially after the fact it is proven to work?

Why should it grow exponentially after the fact it is proven to work?

Fixed that for you. Those reasons are all much older than this sudden jump in value. Even if they weren't old, there's no way they're pumping the value of Bitcoin by 500%. If something's too good to be true, it probably is.

Re: Bitcoin Now Worth $1B

#69

Post by cantankerous »

xoail wrote: post #19
cantankerous wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The exchange rate in USD has quintupled since mid January. I can't see how this is not a bubble.

At the same time I am seeing a lot of adoption. Especially in international markets.

Oh for sure. That doesn't speak to its huge rice in price, though. People aren't going to switch to Bitcoins simply to buy things they would've just bought outright with real world currency, anyway. That's a hassle.

Re: Bitcoin Now Worth $1B

#70

Post by guard-of-terra »

mootothemax wrote: post #46
guard-of-terra wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If bitcoin price is to crash, I'll be the first one buying. Which probably means that the price is not speculative. Speculative like "I hoard" but not like "Ponzi".

If bitcoin price is to crash, I'll be the first one buying. I get the impression plenty of people might buy if the price dropped to $35 or $30. My question is: would you then sell if the price dropped a further $5 or $10?

Why sell for $10? It's pointless, not the kind of money I'm afraid to lose.
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