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Just Use Sublime Text

delvarworld.github.com

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Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#61

Post by tikhonj »

ths wrote: post #53
jaequery wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

at the end, emacs always wins :)

I rock back and forth, depending on the languages I'm using. Emacs does more, but is in my experience more kludgy, even after having in aggregate spent many days customizing it (maybe it would rub better if I wasn't hardwired to the vi/vim modal editing/motions method). Vim feels cleaner and less annoying, but sometimes the easy integration with external tools tips the balance in emacs' favor. E.g. I use vim for Rail…

Emacs can be pretty pretty--perhaps not actively pretty, but very elegant in a minimalist sort of way. I'm pretty happy with how mine looks[1], for example.

[1]: http://jelv.is/emacs-blackboard.png

Also, have you tried Evil? Apparently it's a very good Vim-emulation mode for Emacs, highly recommended over Viper.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#62

Post by deloschang »

Interesting article. I accept that the seeming overstatement of "about two years ... [to] be proficient" differs case by case and may be an average or worst case scenario. Still, the next argument that "The argument that Vim is more efficient is dubious and untestable" because "developers are commonly on machines where the trackpad is a micro-hand movement away" seems to miss the critical point that moving away from the keyboard tends to break trains of thought, at least for me and other programmers I know. This is critical because it takes a while to load problems and solutions into your head. It's like building a house of cards. Looking for the mouse cursor slows down that building tremendously.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#63

Post by ths »

jcoder wrote: post #19

"The Editor You Need To Read (At Least) Two Books On To Use Well" Read :help. I haven't read any books on Vim so I'm not sure if there are any good ones, but you most definitely do not "need" to read one. "The point of a mouse is to make arbitrary on screen jumps efficient, and it’s very good at doing that. Don’t you ever think you can beat a mouse. Only in very few edge cases will it even matter." That's kind of rid…

Even if the mouse were quicker on average for long jumps, the moving of the hand from mouse to keyboard feels like more of a combo breaker, more distracting. Speed is very important, but equally important is for the editing experience to have a low attention footprint to leave more space for the train of thought behind the changes being made.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#64

Post by lowboy »

elteto wrote: post #44

Every time I read these comparisons I can't help but picture two guys arguing about screwdrivers: Guy 1: Hey, mine is a flat head, definitely better! Guy 2: Nah, mine is a Torx, shiny and fancy, definitely superior!! And these two guys always seem to forget that one works as a carpenter and the other one services electronics. I can't see much rationality in the argument.

As an occasional carpenter, Robertson or Philips are far superior and I can't see any carpenter choosing a slot (flathead) over them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Robertson

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Phillips

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#65

Post by theanalyst »

ozataman wrote: post #41

1. I like learning new tools and I got pretty good at vim's 10-15 fundamental commands in probably a couple of weeks. I was certainly OK, albeit a bit slow, by day 2 or so. 2. By the end of month 1-2, vim had become completely second nature. I did stuff without thinking. Actually, thinking about what I was doing started to confuse me. 3. Sure we all spend lots of time thinking, but I also often find myself cranking o…

Agree; customization and extenisibility of emacs is something unmatched (not a vim user, can't comment on that), I have been using emacs for just an year now; and still I feel I am more productive in emacs than anywhere else, keyboard macros and elisp extensibility can almost bring any feature customized to your fingers.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#66

Post by ths »

tikhonj wrote: post #61
ths wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rock back and forth, depending on the languages I'm using. Emacs does more, but is in my experience more kludgy, even after having in aggregate spent many days customizing it (maybe it would rub better if I wasn't hardwired to the vi/vim modal editing/motions method). Vim feels cleaner and less annoying, but sometimes the easy integration with external tools tips the balance in emacs' favor. E.g. I use vim for Rail…

Emacs can be pretty pretty--perhaps not actively pretty, but very elegant in a minimalist sort of way. I'm pretty happy with how mine looks[1], for example. [1]: http://jelv.is/emacs-blackboard.png Also, have you tried Evil? Apparently it's a very good Vim-emulation mode for Emacs, highly recommended over Viper.

Indeed! I disagree with people who think vim and emacs are ugly: they have their own nice 8bit-esque aesthetic which I'd expect hackers to like, given that they've chosen to stare at terminals all day (I've rolled my own colorscheme for both vim and emacs). And they make good use of screen real-estate, very important when coding on a laptop.

I haven't tried Evil, in my last emacs phase it wasn't mature yet IIRC - maybe I should give that a go and see if it tips the balance yet again.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#67

Post by dlitz »

jcoder wrote: post #19

"The Editor You Need To Read (At Least) Two Books On To Use Well" Read :help. I haven't read any books on Vim so I'm not sure if there are any good ones, but you most definitely do not "need" to read one. "The point of a mouse is to make arbitrary on screen jumps efficient, and it’s very good at doing that. Don’t you ever think you can beat a mouse. Only in very few edge cases will it even matter." That's kind of rid…

You don't even need to read :help right away. All you need to do is:

1. Start the graphical version, i.e. gvim, MacVim, or any version with drop-down menus.

2. Press 'i' to enter "Insert mode". Now just use it like any other text editor.

3. Use the menus. Note the equivalent commands (which are listed in the menus). When you want to use those commands, press ESC to switch to command mode, then enter the commands, then press 'i' again to go back to insert mode.

That's it. Modern vim has one of the smoothest learning curves of all software.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#68

Post by SomeCallMeTim »

ths wrote: post #63
jcoder wrote: post #19

"The Editor You Need To Read (At Least) Two Books On To Use Well" Read :help. I haven't read any books on Vim so I'm not sure if there are any good ones, but you most definitely do not "need" to read one. "The point of a mouse is to make arbitrary on screen jumps efficient, and it’s very good at doing that. Don’t you ever think you can beat a mouse. Only in very few edge cases will it even matter." That's kind of rid…

Even if the mouse were quicker on average for long jumps, the moving of the hand from mouse to keyboard feels like more of a combo breaker, more distracting. Speed is very important, but equally important is for the editing experience to have a low attention footprint to leave more space for the train of thought behind the changes being made.

As someone who uses a keyboard 98% of the time, but who uses a GUI editor and the mouse when it makes sense, I'd say the mouse is useful for several things, and what it IS useful for WILL be faster than what someone can do with a keyboard.

The clear win is using a powerful GUI-based editor that has tons of keyboard commands. Bonus points for being on Windows or Linux (i.e., not Mac OS) so you can navigate/BROWSE the menus from the keyboard.

I don't know Sublime myself; I'll have to check it out. For some reason I thought it was Mac-only, but I see that it's cross-platform. My editor-of-choice for years has been Visual Slickedit, but I'm not married to it. I just haven't found anything half as good in years of searching. And I keep trying other editors, too, since there are things I find imperfect about it (the scripting language is usable, for instance, but has it's own syntax and quirks).

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#69

Post by TallboyOne »

These articles are just idiotic. Mouse as fast as the keyboard except a 'few edge cases'? Get out of here.

Vim destroys using a mouse every day of the week, and unless the highest skillset you've learned is fingerpainting, it's not that hard. Sit down for 2 days, stop being a bitch, learn the keybindings, and you're good.

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