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Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

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Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#61

Post by varjag »

gojomo wrote: post #51
varjag wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote that jokes were fired because she was in the earshot. You commented that I postulate unfounded facts, while they are very well founded if you'd go through as much as first half of her write-up.

That any forking joke was motivated by the fact Richards would hear is not established by your excerpt. (Richards merely says that jokes were made.) Additionally, Richards' interpretation of the fork comment is somewhat disputed by one of the conversation participants: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681 It's certainly possible a fork comment was intentionally creepy, a first statement made to a new, female…

For what it worth, a statement opening with "it seems" can hardly be definitive in any sense. The post I replied to made a statement that the jokes weren't directed at her - yet somehow we don't see nearly as much hair-splitting from my critics on that part.

> It's your definitive conclusion of ill-intent, from incomplete evidence, that people may object to.

Intent is always in doubt and I wouldn't ascribe any to the dude's mind process at the time. For all I know it could really be just a joke in poor taste, or a part of his cumbersome mating dance. All I pointed out is the case is not nearly as clear cut as the parent poster presents it, stupid me not realizing we have some sort of r/mensrights party here.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#62

Post by DanBC »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #45
martypitt wrote: post #29

I'm sorry, but I read this as a total overreaction on her behalf. And, there's a massive dose of hypocrisy here, especially given the following tweets that she sent, whilst at PyCon: @skwashd you should put something in your pants next time... like a bunch of socks inside one...large...sock. TSA agent faint [1] How is this not a massive double standard? Is this not dripping with innuendo? Would it have been acceptabl…

The reason you can't get offended by any of these is that they're in no way offensive. Did you read the conversation around that first tweet? It in no way degrades anyone, with the possible exception of TSA agents. The one "about autism" is a comparison in which someone is compare to someone autistic because they're good at something. It seems to me that you've basically gone looking for stuff to beat her up with and…

The Autism tweets have potential to be offensive because they're ignorant about ASD.

Many people with ASDs have very poor oral communication skills.

There's a bunch of stuff there about people with ASDs having to pass - having to fake who they are to be more neuro-typical so they can get work and avoid bullying - which is potentially distressing if you've ever had to do it.

Your general point that this isn't as serious as sexist banter at conferences is a good one, and I accept that.

I'm still uncomfortable that she tweeted photographs of a bunch of people, labelling some of them as sexist, without being very clear which ones she was accusing. There's a bunch of guys in that photo who may hate sexism and may be working hard to avoid it (or who maybe don't care either way but are not actively being sexist) who are now in a widely circulated photo.

EDIT: About "Being good at something" - we don't say "Women are nurturing"; "men are good at reading maps"; "people with Autism are great at math" because it's stereotyping limiting reductionist nonsense.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#63

Post by MetaCosm »

angersock wrote: post #40

So, we've got the "Think of the children!" argument: I realized I had to do something or she would never have the chance to learn and love programming because the ass clowns behind me would make it impossible for her to do so. I'll entertain that argument, though I think it is a wee-bit overbearing on her part to assume what will and what won't scare off this youngster; I don't believe, for example, that simple clums…

Or just look at the domain name, the calculation, the self-aggrandizement and realize a perfectly played marketing ploy to drive traffic to her site and get her some future speaking engagements.

I give her props for deft manipulation of the situation for maximum effect, it was rather brilliant... and from her perspective the worst thing is an unfunny guy got fired, not a bad days work.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#64

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

DanBC wrote: post #62
Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason you can't get offended by any of these is that they're in no way offensive. Did you read the conversation around that first tweet? It in no way degrades anyone, with the possible exception of TSA agents. The one "about autism" is a comparison in which someone is compare to someone autistic because they're good at something. It seems to me that you've basically gone looking for stuff to beat her up with and…

The Autism tweets have potential to be offensive because they're ignorant about ASD. Many people with ASDs have very poor oral communication skills. There's a bunch of stuff there about people with ASDs having to pass - having to fake who they are to be more neuro-typical so they can get work and avoid bullying - which is potentially distressing if you've ever had to do it. Your general point that this isn't as serio…

Fair point re the autism point though worth noting that she was talking to someone who was autistic and writes about it publicly (she replies to Maty in the comments below the piece on this).

Regarding the photo - agreed she needs to be sure she's not catching innocent people in shot and should probably be clearer who she is referring to.

One small thing (which I'm guessing was actually just you being brief rather than anything more):

It's worth noting that (I'm pretty sure) that she didn't label anyone as sexist.

She accused several people of behaving in a particular way supporting it with a detailed account of things she personally witnessed. That seems fair enough.

But she also seems (correct me if I'm wrong) to stop short of extrapolating that out to saying they're sexist. Many of us will have at some point said something, knowingly or unknowingly, that was racist / sexist / homophobic but most of us would deny being racist / sexist / homophobic. One doesn't necessarily extend automatically from the other and it's good that she didn't try to do that and stuck just to what she knew.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#65

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

CornishPasty wrote: post #30
varjag wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From TFA: >He said he would be interested in forking the repo and continuing development. That would have been fine until the guy next to him… began making sexual forking jokes The guy inserted his forking double innuendos in a conversation two other persons were having. Do you seriously think he'd do that if one of those weren't a female? (Also, forking jokes? Is that 1995 or what)

> Do you seriously think he'd do that if one of those weren't a female? Uhh, yeah... If he was crude enough to make forking jokes, he wouldn't care what his audience was, perhaps he'd even prefer it to be guys so they can all laugh along with him...

It's a fair point, though the whole thing is slightly irrelevant (the overall point you're responding to) as we shouldn't assume that men don't find this stuff offensive.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#66

Post by jjacobson »

I recently helped host a hackathon in Vegas and we had several high school kids, including girls, attend. They were nervous and felt out of place at first among all the older developers. But they went in to win a significant prize at the event and are now very active in the VegasTech community.

Thank god they didn't have to deal with anything like this.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#67

Post by [deleted] »

szc wrote: post #60
martypitt wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The problem was directing a "suggestive" / "lewd" conversation at a 3rd Party with no active relationship. There is nothing in the source material that suggests that the conversation was directed at a 3rd party. Person A was having a conversation with Person B, and made a comment that Person C overheard and got offended at. The twitter conversation analogy fits perfectly. How is a joke about socks in pants less se…

Since you didn't say who A, B and C were I have to assume, A - person to the left B - person to the right C - Adria Yes, you have missed the distinction and the twitter "analogy" is false. Adria[C] (I've no idea who any of these people are) turned and spoke to the person to the far left [A] behind her - and it "involved forking the repo to continue development". Then, the "guy next to him" [B] .... um, the 3rd Person…

[deleted]

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#68

Post by jjacobson »

georgebarnett wrote: post #7

Given that it would be trivial to turn around and ask them not to offend, I fail to see the benefit in publicly going after these guys after the fact. Mob justice doesn't allow the other party the ability to alter their behaviour (we don't know if asking would have worked) nor does it allow the other party to tell their side of the story. In addition, it has a habit of causing both sides to dig their heels in and oft…

Adria, and most women, are tired of asking people one by one not to offend. This is her asking everyone to think about what they say in public.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#69

Post by zshprompt »

jjacobson wrote: post #68
georgebarnett wrote: post #7

Given that it would be trivial to turn around and ask them not to offend, I fail to see the benefit in publicly going after these guys after the fact. Mob justice doesn't allow the other party the ability to alter their behaviour (we don't know if asking would have worked) nor does it allow the other party to tell their side of the story. In addition, it has a habit of causing both sides to dig their heels in and oft…

Adria, and most women, are tired of asking people one by one not to offend. This is her asking everyone to think about what they say in public.

That is fine, but posting their picture is so wrong. She took their photo, while smiling at them. And then she captioned it: "Offenders" and put it on twitter.

This is the real issue here.

Let's for example go to your hackathon in Vegas. Lets say some asshole says something inappropriate to one of the high school girls in attendance. Do you really think that taking his photo, captioning it "pervert" and posting it to twitter is the right course of action?

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#70

Post by beigelightning »

DoubleMalt wrote: post #33
girvo wrote: post #14

The "jokes" (which are lame) weren't directed at her from what I can gather. The OP publicly lynched them, and one guy was fired for it. What a crap situation all over :( I dont understand the offensiveness of what they said, directed at themselves, just being idiots. Christ, that could happen to me. Is fear of reprisal better than actual understanding?

While it would not happen to me in all likelihood, I find the general lack of humour displayed in this case by the OP appalling. However I am aware of the fact that many of my gender are incredibly offensive to women and that after a long week with many conferences and in all likelihood having to suffer many comments and jokes that really warrant a calling out the sensitivities are heightened. Unfortunately calling a…

She references that she was twice a victim of domestic violence in this post: http://butyoureagirl.com/13871/success-against-the-odds-fill...

Obviously a horrible thing to go through, perhaps it has colored her perceptions somewhat?

I do agree that the reaction greatly outweighed the incident.

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