Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Nothing is certain, except death and taxes .. and chargebacks

blog.balancedpayments.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–69 of 69 posts

Re: Nothing is certain, except death and taxes .. and chargebacks

#61

Post by whit537 »

brandonb wrote: post #50
mrweasel wrote: post #38

I would actually be interested in knowing how others deal with a certain type of fraud. We currently have an issue where someone is using stolen credit cards to buy "digital goods". We in the UK and Scandinavia, so we started out blocking purchases of digital goods from the UK. Fraud goes to zero right away. The fraudsters moves to using stolen UK credit cards in Denmark, via a large number of Danish IPs, fine... We'…

My company (Sift Science) uses machine learning to fight fraud, and we work with customers who sell digital goods. You're right that normal country blacklisting, IP blocking, AVS, CVV, etc. aren't terribly effective. I think some effective techniques for digital goods are: 1) behavioral signals, such as how long the user spent browsing your site before making a purchase, 2) physical device -- have I seen activity fro…

Brandon's a great guy, very proactive and helpful. We didn't have quite enough volume yet (w/ Gittip) to use his services, but I have a positive opinion of him.

E.g.: https://github.com/zetaweb/www.gittip.com/pull/387

Re: Nothing is certain, except death and taxes .. and chargebacks

#62

Post by Osiris »

pytrin wrote: post #55
mrweasel wrote: post #38

I would actually be interested in knowing how others deal with a certain type of fraud. We currently have an issue where someone is using stolen credit cards to buy "digital goods". We in the UK and Scandinavia, so we started out blocking purchases of digital goods from the UK. Fraud goes to zero right away. The fraudsters moves to using stolen UK credit cards in Denmark, via a large number of Danish IPs, fine... We'…

Preventing fraud is impossible, but you can minimize it to very low levels with a combination of filters, some of which you mentioned. This includes geo distance, public Email address, velocity, size of transaction and most important - proxy detection. The use of a public anonymous proxy is a very high indicator of fraud. We use minfraud, a service that takes all of those parameters as input, and uses a huge database…

I was having huge problems with fraud on my website also. A lot of stolen credit cards being used from Vietnam.

Using Braintree as my processor, I send an authorization request for the card. If the auth is successful, I send the data over to MinFraud for a check. If the fraud value is I also log all minChecks and I manually check any request that has a value > 10 or so just to make sure it looks legit.

The biggest change I had to make to support this is that I had to add Country, City, and Region (State) boxes to my payment form. So user's have to put in 3 more pieces of information that they didn't have to with a plain (a la Stripe Purchase button) payment form.

However, that information has saved me from numerous frauds. Also, it appears that once the fraudsters determined that they couldn't use my site anymore, they've stopped trying.

I am VERY happy with their service and it's very inexpensive.

Re: Nothing is certain, except death and taxes .. and chargebacks

#63

Post by brandonb »

whit537 wrote: post #61
brandonb wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My company (Sift Science) uses machine learning to fight fraud, and we work with customers who sell digital goods. You're right that normal country blacklisting, IP blocking, AVS, CVV, etc. aren't terribly effective. I think some effective techniques for digital goods are: 1) behavioral signals, such as how long the user spent browsing your site before making a purchase, 2) physical device -- have I seen activity fro…

Brandon's a great guy, very proactive and helpful. We didn't have quite enough volume yet (w/ Gittip) to use his services, but I have a positive opinion of him. E.g.: https://github.com/zetaweb/www.gittip.com/pull/387

Thanks Chad! It's a pleasure to work with people like you!

Re: Nothing is certain, except death and taxes .. and chargebacks

#64

Post by callmeed »

mrweasel wrote: post #38

I would actually be interested in knowing how others deal with a certain type of fraud. We currently have an issue where someone is using stolen credit cards to buy "digital goods". We in the UK and Scandinavia, so we started out blocking purchases of digital goods from the UK. Fraud goes to zero right away. The fraudsters moves to using stolen UK credit cards in Denmark, via a large number of Danish IPs, fine... We'…

Drop me an email, maybe we can trade notes. I have been dealing with this for almost a year at http://nextproof.com

We had really bad chargebacks and our underwriting merchant almost pulled our account. It took going back to some manual verification and other tricks to finally get it down. We've only had a dozen or so chargebacks in the last 6 months.

Re: Nothing is certain, except death and taxes .. and chargebacks

#65

Post by dagw »

mrweasel wrote: post #38

I would actually be interested in knowing how others deal with a certain type of fraud. We currently have an issue where someone is using stolen credit cards to buy "digital goods". We in the UK and Scandinavia, so we started out blocking purchases of digital goods from the UK. Fraud goes to zero right away. The fraudsters moves to using stolen UK credit cards in Denmark, via a large number of Danish IPs, fine... We'…

3DSecure for MasterCard or Verified by VISA. These solutions are very American and not at all what European customers expect to see.

I can't speak for Europe, but basically every site here in Sweden where I buy something with a card uses 3DSecure and VbV. The pick up over the past couple of years has been massive.

Re: Nothing is certain, except death and taxes .. and chargebacks

#66

Post by lucian1900 »

dagw wrote: post #65
mrweasel wrote: post #38

I would actually be interested in knowing how others deal with a certain type of fraud. We currently have an issue where someone is using stolen credit cards to buy "digital goods". We in the UK and Scandinavia, so we started out blocking purchases of digital goods from the UK. Fraud goes to zero right away. The fraudsters moves to using stolen UK credit cards in Denmark, via a large number of Danish IPs, fine... We'…

3DSecure for MasterCard or Verified by VISA. These solutions are very American and not at all what European customers expect to see. I can't speak for Europe, but basically every site here in Sweden where I buy something with a card uses 3DSecure and VbV. The pick up over the past couple of years has been massive.

On the other hand, it works so badly in the UK that it's been disabled by pretty much all banks.

Re: Nothing is certain, except death and taxes .. and chargebacks

#67

Post by thisone »

lucian1900 wrote: post #66
dagw wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3DSecure for MasterCard or Verified by VISA. These solutions are very American and not at all what European customers expect to see. I can't speak for Europe, but basically every site here in Sweden where I buy something with a card uses 3DSecure and VbV. The pick up over the past couple of years has been massive.

On the other hand, it works so badly in the UK that it's been disabled by pretty much all banks.

Ahh, is that why it went away for a few years.

Back about 2008-2009 it seemed I got hit with a VbV screen for 90% of purchases. Then, it just seemed to 'go away'

In the past 3 or 4 months, I've started seeing VbV screens again though. So perhaps something else has changed?

Personally I never had any purchase problems with the system.

Re: Nothing is certain, except death and taxes .. and chargebacks

#68

Post by mrweasel »

brandonb wrote: post #50
mrweasel wrote: post #38

I would actually be interested in knowing how others deal with a certain type of fraud. We currently have an issue where someone is using stolen credit cards to buy "digital goods". We in the UK and Scandinavia, so we started out blocking purchases of digital goods from the UK. Fraud goes to zero right away. The fraudsters moves to using stolen UK credit cards in Denmark, via a large number of Danish IPs, fine... We'…

My company (Sift Science) uses machine learning to fight fraud, and we work with customers who sell digital goods. You're right that normal country blacklisting, IP blocking, AVS, CVV, etc. aren't terribly effective. I think some effective techniques for digital goods are: 1) behavioral signals, such as how long the user spent browsing your site before making a purchase, 2) physical device -- have I seen activity fro…

That looks extremely interesting and it might very well be something we could use for a project we're just starting.

Re: Nothing is certain, except death and taxes .. and chargebacks

#69

Post by osamet67 »

mrweasel wrote: post #38

I would actually be interested in knowing how others deal with a certain type of fraud. We currently have an issue where someone is using stolen credit cards to buy "digital goods". We in the UK and Scandinavia, so we started out blocking purchases of digital goods from the UK. Fraud goes to zero right away. The fraudsters moves to using stolen UK credit cards in Denmark, via a large number of Danish IPs, fine... We'…

You may be interested in some of the points here: http://blog.signifyd.com/2013/02/25/detecting-fraud-in-digit...
Post reply on HN