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Announcing Topaz: A New Ruby

docs.topazruby.com

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Re: Announcing Topaz: A New Ruby

#61

Post by fusiongyro »

fijal wrote: post #42
fusiongyro wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know what an analogy is?

I'm actually not a native speaker, so indeed, I might not know. I checked in the dictionary though. This is an analogy, but not a very good analogy, because of the reasons that I pointed out. Are you disagreeing with any particular reasoning there? Or should I just say "they're similary, but"?

"They're similar, but" is much better than "is totally not like." The point of the analogy is to give a high-level view, not to achieve 100% accuracy at the lowest levels of detail.

Re: Announcing Topaz: A New Ruby

#63

Post by stcredzero »

[deleted] wrote: post #52
Pewpewarrows wrote: post #10

Completely unscientific, but if these outputs are any indication, this is going to be great news for Rubby users in the future... $ time ruby -e "puts 'hello world'" hello world real 0m0.184s user 0m0.079s sys 0m0.092s $ time ~/Downloads/topaz/bin/topaz -e "puts 'hello world'" hello world real 0m0.007s user 0m0.002s sys 0m0.004s

[deleted]

> the lack of many core features probably helps out a lot atm.

I don't understand why the lack of features would affect the time of "hello world."

Re: Announcing Topaz: A New Ruby

#64

Post by fijal »

fijal wrote: post #57
[deleted] wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

the idea was to implement enough of "hard stuff". So it should not change. but hello world is not a good idea (this one also might actually change due to library loading, but please don't benchmark it like that)

in other words - if you can run it today, you should believe numbers. if you cannot run it, then well, you cannot.

Re: Announcing Topaz: A New Ruby

#65

Post by ephemeralgomi »

stcredzero wrote: post #63
[deleted] wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

> the lack of many core features probably helps out a lot atm. I don't understand why the lack of features would affect the time of "hello world."

Loading the standard library takes time. With a smaller (underimplemented) standard library, you can get to the user's code much more quickly.

Re: Announcing Topaz: A New Ruby

#66

Post by hemancuso »

It would be nice to see Rpython/pypy turned into a project not unlike WebKit where many different projects benefit from the same open-source core. If pypy is flexible enough to implement all of ruby and all of Python, has a reasonable amount of maturity, and is already rather fast it seems like a good candidate for such a thing.

Re: Announcing Topaz: A New Ruby

#67

Post by Cowen »

Pewpewarrows wrote: post #10

Completely unscientific, but if these outputs are any indication, this is going to be great news for Rubby users in the future... $ time ruby -e "puts 'hello world'" hello world real 0m0.184s user 0m0.079s sys 0m0.092s $ time ~/Downloads/topaz/bin/topaz -e "puts 'hello world'" hello world real 0m0.007s user 0m0.002s sys 0m0.004s

Whenever I see frontpages for these kinds of projects like "a faster X" or "X written in Blub", the first thing I want to see on the frontpage is how this new project compares to X in terms of quality and performance. Even specious benchmarks would help more than zero benchmarks.

I wish more frontpages for these kinds of projects would do that.

Re: Announcing Topaz: A New Ruby

#69

Post by awj »

kristofferR wrote: post #39
fijal wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the point. It's not written in Python . It's written i RPython, which is vastly different. Technology behind this and PyPy is the same, however there is no Python usage here. Additionally, erlang has avoided scaling issues by being functional. This might be good or bad, depending on your viewpoint, but just implementing a ruby interpreter in erlang won't cut, because you're not answering any of…

"Topaz is written in Python on top of the RPython translation toolchain (the same one that powers PyPy)." [1] "Topaz - An implementation of the Ruby programming language, in Python, using the RPython VM toolchain." [2] [1] http://docs.topazruby.com/en/latest/blog/announcing-topaz/ [2] https://github.com/topazproject/topaz/blob/master/README.rst

As RPython is a subset of Python, that statement is technically correct but misleading. Stating that Topaz is "Ruby written in Python" leads to the idea that it's written in / runs on CPython, which is really not the case.

Re: Announcing Topaz: A New Ruby

#70

Post by luckystarr »

fijal wrote: post #59
luckystarr wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to fijal's comment: I also heard somewhere that RPython is a) not strictly specified and b) may change when needed without notice. So I would stay clear of it. :)

we removed that from the docs, it's kinda stable by now (but it's still an atrocious language to use, just beats C/C++ for that particular task by a lot)

Out of curiosity, whats so atrocious about it? The slow translation step or language idiosyncrasies?
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