The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded • Hacker News Board

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#61

Post by lessnonymous » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 5:24 AM UTC

Former employer bought me an ACS membership one year (mainly so we could get access to their members in the hope of selling our services).

The entire membership seems to be guys who built a homebrew PC in the 70s and haven't showered since, or international students who believe so much in their education they're fooled into believing they need the ACS to rubber stamp their degree.

They're totally irrelevant in today's "but can you write good code?" hiring practice.

The ACS preys on uninformed international students. (Who, in interviews, all seem to want to work for Cisco in five years time! Are they taught this by the ACS?)

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#62

Post by derrida » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 5:25 AM UTC

ryanackley wrote: post #55

retrogradeorbit wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems inner city Sydney is a 'holiday area'. [ http://australianpropertyforum.com/blog/main/3204321 ]

Only one or two of the suburbs listed are actually considered inner city. As someone who does live in the inner-city of Sydney and pay $3100USD/month for a shoebox. I would be incredulous if there were a large amount of vacancies beyond normal turnover. There are usually bidding wars for property sales (most inner-city properties are sold by auction) and dozens of applications for rentals.

I've lived in the inner-west all my life & I know 5 or so squatters. Yep. There are vacant buildings everywhere you probably just don't know it. There's a whole world outside the market & we need to encourage this sort of thing, or else a city becomes locked into mortgages with little job flexibility. The ability to live cheaply in a city is very important. High costs to maintain a basic lifestyle mean less risk taken, less businesses started, less innovation, less arts. In total contrast to Sydney is Berlin: high unemployment, very low cost of living, tons of start-ups, tons of arts.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#63

Post by lessnonymous » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 5:26 AM UTC

femto wrote: post #50

mctx wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To legally do any wiring work at all it must be done by an accredited electrician, not merely inspected by one as in most countries. And contract electricians cost upwards of $80/hour, making replacing a light fitting prohibitively expensive.

Which is why many houses now have GPOs (power points) in the ceiling space, and the light fittings are appliances plugged into the GPO, rather than permanently installed. Domestically, it is legal to work on things that are not permanently wired in, the main constraint being that you should follow good practice, so you don't kill someone. I'm surprised that a keen DIYer hasn't tried using a 3-phase 32A plug to plug t…

Oh wow .. I wonder if I could convince an electrician to put a massive plug and socket in my meter box ..

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#64

Post by lessnonymous » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 5:28 AM UTC

stephen_g wrote: post #60

Wingman4l7 wrote: post #41

I find it completely ridiculous -- how on Earth could a the ACS hope to apply any sort of standard evaluation to a CS / IT degree earned in any of a dozen countries, from any of a thousand universities (with attendant varying degree requirements and relative differences in course difficulty) , not to mention evaluating self-taught skills or industry experience in hundreds of specialties. A programmer is not a tradesm…

No IT employer in Australia that I've communicated with has ever mentioned the ACS in regards to qualifications, not once -- I would be surprised if any even know it exists Same - I've been working as a software engineer in Australia for almost five years now, had never heard of them!

We know they exist. They're just irrelevant.

It says a lot if you prefer to tell us you're an ACS member rather than that you write code for fun at home.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#65

Post by mylittlepony » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 5:30 AM UTC

I'm sorry Australia, you are not getting me as a skilled worker (I thought you were in need of IT experts with fluent english). No seriously, I stumbled upon this issue some time ago, and that wasn't the first or last paywall. You have to pay for everything, even if you end up being rejected (not that I couldn't afford it, but f*ck that). Kind of offtopic, but I also saw they have some serious discrimination issues (it's not even about skin color, which I don't care since I'm white, they just don't want foreigners). Back to Google Maps to find a different destination.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#66

Post by teflonhook » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 5:33 AM UTC

verelo wrote: post #40

I'd love to hear Matt's views on TAFE, i think accreditation has a very important place in our society (mainly because i got very sick of uneducated morons charging people for fixing computers, writing bad code...etc) Anyway, the fact that Matt is complaining about fees and then is happy to be associated with the Singularity University that chargs $25k for a course ( http://apply2013.singularityu.org/res/p/faq/ ) mak…

Matt here. I have no problem with TAFE at all, it's a valuable part of our educational ecosystem and the country is in a skills crisis.

I have a problem with an organisation like ACS being so awfully backward and outdated yet responsible so many important things. It's a protectionist racket to charge $400 for someone with an Bachelor's Degree from an Australian University to get it "accredited" so you can apply for a skilled visa, for example.

Also I see nothing wrong with executive education. Singularity University is not a tertiary education provider, it's a graduate/executive program. It does not compete with TAFE in any way shape or form. I can't see how you can connect the two, quite frankly.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#67

Post by lessnonymous » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 5:34 AM UTC

djt wrote: post #4

_dark_matter_ wrote: post #3

All that about the pamphlet, not a big deal. But the payments at the end for accreditation? That seems to be a worse offense. Of course, if companies are only accepting applicants accredited by the ACS, they must be missing out on SOME people.

I think the main problem is you need the accreditation if you want to apply to immigrate. As I understand it even if you are from overseas and study at a Australian university you would still need to get the accreditation to apply for a visa.

If you want to enter under the skilled migrant program, I expect you're correct.

However as an employer, I've hired a bunch of people from overseas on a 457 visa and never thought to get them to talk to the ACS. I don't really care if your university degree has been rubber stamped or not. (And if you can write code, I don't really care too much about your degree)

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#68

Post by lancewiggs » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 5:35 AM UTC

Firstly - come to New Zealand. There is long list of ICT/Electronics and Communications roles, including all professional engineers, on the long Term Skills Shortage list. Additionally ICT and creative indistries are deemed long term growth areas. This means it's much easier to get into NZ - either for working or for immigration through our points system.[1] On the ground the answer is yes, we really need more devs and creatives. Requirements are generally degrees and a little experience.

Secondly, it's telling that we have yet to see a response from ACS on this page. Speaks volumes.

[1] http://www.immigration.govt.nz/pointsindicator/ follow for Absolute Skills Shortage and Future Growth Areas.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#69

Post by nevster » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 5:38 AM UTC

indecision wrote: post #20

I was recently involved in an ACS "Re-accreditation" review for my University which I graduated from in 2011. It was clear from the outset that the whole thing was a farce - to be re-accredited required the ACS to ask past students generic questions (such as "How important is ethics to an IT Professional") and for us to give canned answers. While the university didn't explicitly tell us to give the 'expected' answers…

The comp sci degree at UNSW back in the early 90's didn't go in for the ACS thing. It was something offered at more Tafe-y places like UTS. Not sure about now.

It seems the lower down the qualification chain you go, the more importance is placed on giving you fancy certificates. ACS membership is one of those things.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#70

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 31, 2013, 5:43 AM UTC

Schwolop wrote: post #10

For those unaware, this polemic is by Matt Barrie, CEO of Freelancer. He's been very outspoken in the Australian media about over-regulation of industry and outdated think tanks stifling innovation by recommending tactics that reinforce the status quo.

[deleted]