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Lenovo splits the Think brand into a separate group

engadget.com

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Re: Lenovo splits the Think brand into a separate group

#61

Post by esbwhat »

w1ntermute wrote: post #60
djmdjm wrote: post #11

I hope this doesn't mean further abandoning the Thinkpad design values (centered around excellence in functional design) to compete on the ones that Apple has been so successful on (excellence in visual design). If they do they won't win and will mess up an excellent and unique brand in the process. They've already started down this road IMO, dropping their near-perfect keyboard for a trendy chiclet one in the x230.…

As a long-time ThinkPad user, the new keyboard (which I have on my X1 Carbon) is not nearly as big of a problem as you're making it out to be. I got used to it fairly quickly, and I think I like it better now. But more importantly, Lenovo has really raised the bar in terms of size and weight with the X1 Carbon. I don't think they are abandoning functionality at all.

I also own an x1 carbon -- it's a great laptop, linux runs on it flawlessly. If the battery was changable it would be perfect.

I've not had a problem with the keyboard, and I also own a thinkpad with a "real" thinkpad keyboard. I wouldn't say I prefer one over the other, they're both solid keyboards.

Re: Lenovo splits the Think brand into a separate group

#62

Post by msutherl »

sp4rki wrote: post #30
msutherl wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the same way. The ThinkPad is the only computer that could potentially tempt me away from my MacBook. So far I'm stuck to OS X though (dreaming of Arch minimalism).

You could easily get a cheap 420 or 520 and try it out for a while. The only thing that I'll be keeping a mac mini I have in the corner of the desk for is photoshop to be honest. Why are you stuck on OSX if I may ask?

Access to Adobe Suite, iWork, Max/MSP/Jitter, and other software that I depend on for my work.

Re: Lenovo splits the Think brand into a separate group

#63

Post by atesti »

Has someone found out in the meantime whether it's possible to put an W520 replacement keyboard into the new W530? I heart the key mappings in the BIOS would be bad, but it would fit physically at least. But there was no real confirmation.

(I would actually try out the chiclets, but I need all 7 rows and use the pgup, pgdown, del, insert,pos1 and end keys and have them so deep in my muscle memory that I will be miserable when I get a new Thinkpad)

Thinkpads are great otherwise, the W520 is almost perfect.

Re: Lenovo splits the Think brand into a separate group

#64

Post by rjh29 »

meaty wrote: post #59
rjh29 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've spent a couple of hours a few times a year having to maintain my OS so far. I vastly prefer this to Ubuntu, where pretty much everything broke every 6 months. The tradeoff is that you get new and shiny software continually.

Try Debian stable. I've had a single installation last for 13 years so far. New and shiny is considerably less important than working and tested the first time something breaks.

I moved to Arch because I was prepared to accept breakage in return for having the latest software. Debian stable is pretty much the exact opposite.

Re: Lenovo splits the Think brand into a separate group

#65

Post by wyclif »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #51
wyclif wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The older ThinkPad keyboard design is the example I thought of immediately. The classic ThinkPads had keyboards designed for people who touch type— they were supremely functional. Not a "buckling spring" IBM Model M keyboard— they use foam rubber under the keys like all other modern keyboards, I suspect—but still more responsive and better for people like me who don't need to look at the keyboard when programming or…

I would kill fr a laptop with a model M keyboard built into it. There must be some way to simulate spring action in a thin keyboard setup. Most of us don't need to look at the keyboard when writing, chiclet keyboards are completely ok for that. You don't really need the peaked edges to find the keys.

Sure, you don't have to have the peaked edge keys. But that's like saying you don't need a tactile keyboard at all. Those high, peaked keys with responsive feedback are perfect for me (I type 70-80 wpm).

Re: Lenovo splits the Think brand into a separate group

#66

Post by djt »

elithrar wrote: post #16
miahi wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this also means they will compete in some of the markets. We'll see what happens. It should be easier to pick a laptop then, as I don't think we will see any Lenovo with a non-glossy screen.

> But this also means they will compete in some of the markets. We'll see what happens. I see this as an issue now that they are two separate groups, likely with their own KPIs and numbers to meet. As we see so often with other organisations, they tend towards in-fighting rather than (good) cannibalisation because of the "silo" structure they've created.

Lenovo have had a pretty good track history though, so hopefully it wont come to that.

Re: Lenovo splits the Think brand into a separate group

#67

Post by bad_user »

kybernetyk wrote: post #36
djmdjm wrote: post #11

I hope this doesn't mean further abandoning the Thinkpad design values (centered around excellence in functional design) to compete on the ones that Apple has been so successful on (excellence in visual design). If they do they won't win and will mess up an excellent and unique brand in the process. They've already started down this road IMO, dropping their near-perfect keyboard for a trendy chiclet one in the x230.…

I don't know but my Macbook Pro feels pretty functional. Things like the Magsafe power connector or the superb touchpad don't just look pretty. Only because it looks nice doesn't mean it's useless. And only because it's functional doesn't mean it has to look like a plastic brick from an 80s sci-fi movie.

I once spilled some coffee (like 50 milliliters or so) on a top of the line Macbook Pro. The keyboard and the DVD drive simply stopped functioning. I got lucky too, because I shut it down immediately, pulled the battery out and then I let it dry for a whole day.

Right now I own a cheap Asus for instance and it has swallowed tea, coffee and water. Besides the keyboard getting a little sticky, nothing happened. I probably got lucky, since I am talking about a piece of shit low-end laptop.

But Thinkpads are designed for accidents. The T line has to pass military tests. Soldiers used Thinkpads in Irak. That plastic brick from the 80s can take abuse like no other laptop on the market.

And besides, I do not care about how shinny and good looking my laptop is. I do care about functionality. Macbooks are great for their touchpad and their high resolution screens. But thinkpads are great in this regard - great keyboard, awesome pointing stick, HD+ available on all models, not to mention things I wish Macbooks had, like the Ultrabay, which allows you to easily put something else in place of your DVD drive. Something like an SSD, or maybe an extra battery.

Something else I love about Thinkpads and HP EliteBooks, something which even low-end models have (ThinkPad L series, Thinkpad Edge, HP ProBook), is the easy access to the internals, without voiding the warranty. On Thinkpads, even the low-end ones, it's really easy to change the hard drive or to add an extra memory stick. On ProBook you don't even need a screwdriver. This is useful not just for upgrading it, but also for cleaning the internal fan and other maintenance stuff. This allows businesses to have in-house hardware support, without having issues with the provided warranty.

There's a lot of things I like about MacBooks. But IMHO, if I were operating a business, I would give MacBooks only to developers that know what they are doing and really want one.

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