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Brits would quite like their private messages to stay private

theregister.com

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Re: Brits would quite like their private messages to stay private

#61

Post by whateverboat »

danaris wrote: post #50
FartyMcFarter wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then we'd have to hear the Brexiteers whining on and on about democracy. This way we get to see their project fail. I don't know which one is worse.

Hm, which is worse: An entire country of millions of people suffers from the shortsighted actions of a few with reduced quality of products, increased prices, worse access to other countries, and a host of other problems... ...or we have to listen to some people whine?

> Hm, which is worse: An entire country of millions of people suffers from the shortsighted actions of a few

Few? 51% is a few? I mean, I also think Brexit was a monumentally stupid decision, but 51% of people wanted it, no?

Even assuming that everyone who didn't vote would have voted for remain, given the voter turnout of 71% (which is already very high for any election, typical turnout is around 57%), 35% of people said yes. That's not a few, that a big chunk.

Re: Brits would quite like their private messages to stay private

#63

Post by hawk_ »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #60
IndySun wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

55%, maybe. But that still leaves a divided country for decades afterwards. It was handled badly from start to finish. Many 'remainers' didn't take the threat serious enough. Never under estimate your opponent.

Cameron put a Eurosceptic in charge of the Remain campaign, and Nick Clegg - supposedly an arch Remainer - went to work for Meta after Cambridge Analytica and its contribution to Brexit became public knowledge. The public were conned. The oligarch-adjacent ruling faction of the ruling class knew exactly what they were doing, the lack of specificity for any Leave plan was deliberate, the lies and propaganda were cynic…

I blame Corbyn as much as Cameron if not more. Corbyn was supposed to represent the working class but because Remain could have benefited some Tories he backstabbed the working class and at least a whole generation if not 2 and for what?

Re: Brits would quite like their private messages to stay private

#64

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

andrewaylett wrote: post #52
Nursie wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's shocking of course is that the Brexit vote didn't end up the same way ("ok the vote passed but it can't be done anyway"). There was an attempt. A campaigner managed to get the courts to issue a verdict that the referendum was not binding, and Parliament must then have a vote on whether or not to implement the result. Remain voters rejoiced and lauded her as a hero. Brexit voters demonised her as an enemy of…

Which was, procedurally, the correct course of action: the referendum was non-binding, because the UK's constitution only allows for non-binding referendums. Parliament is sovereign, whether you and I like it or not (and I'm generally ambivalent about it). Given one of the major themes of the leave campaign was "restoring parliamentary sovereignty", it's darkly ironic that leave also campaigned against parliament act…

I wouldn't call it ironic. The forces behind Leave were - still are - far-right nationalists and wannabe autocrats. They consider democracy an annoyance - ideally a temporary one.

Their idea of sovereignty is telling everyone else what to do. They wrap this up in flags and Sptifire biscuit tin patriotism for the poorly educated, but it's all for show.

What they want is unlimited power over others. The EU has always been an obstacle to that.

The different nationalists - the Republicans in the US, the Putinists in Russia, the Zionists in Israel, the Brexiters in the UK, the Saudi oil imperialists - are all tentacles of the same creature, and more likely to cooperate with each other against their native populations than act independently.

Re: Brits would quite like their private messages to stay private

#66

Post by dkdbejwi383 »

hackersnooze1 wrote: post #62

I am not convinced they do, they keep voting to give away their privacy every year.

I can't imagine this is at top of mind for many voters, or even in mind at all. People are more concerned with things like the cost of living, immigration and things like local planning law.

Re: Brits would quite like their private messages to stay private

#67

Post by mrkeen »

armchairhacker wrote: post #59
HPsquared wrote: post #15

Generally speaking the more important an issue is, the less it is allowed to be affected by democratic processes. That's why Brexit was such a big upset, it bucked the trend (the management miscalculated, nobody expected the result and would not have put it to referendum otherwise).

"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all others that have been tried". If the people aren't capable of handling an issue, who is? Bureaucrats who are...elected democratically? Brexit's issue is that it can't be easily reversed, I don't understand why they don't just hold another referendum and undo everything.

The government is not the people. The process goes something like:

A) I get voted in if I give the people what they want

B) The people don't want to be spied on

C) I increase spying

D) ???

E) Profit!

I'm still hazy on the details. But the politicians really can't plead ignorance. At least in the US you regularly hear things like "the Senate convened at 11:30pm on Friday night to push through unpopular legislation". They know.

Re: Brits would quite like their private messages to stay private

#68

Post by madaxe_again »

badgersnake wrote: post #65
hackersnooze1 wrote: post #62

I am not convinced they do, they keep voting to give away their privacy every year.

They just don’t read past the headline and the headline usually involves paedophiles.

I mean, at what point do we say that wilfully refusing to absorb relevant information and then knowingly and willingly making a decision based on that lack of information is, indeed, their will?

Re: Brits would quite like their private messages to stay private

#69

Post by Nursie »

legacynl wrote: post #48
Nursie wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually that was by design of the anti-Brexit faction. Before you get ranty at me - I voted remain. But your comment is revisionist. The pro-Brexit shysters were not in power. After the referendum, whichever way it went, the pro-Brexit people were not going to be given power, it was not an election. They had no mandate to implement anything. Any plan they promised would have been irrelevant to the UK government and…

I think you're being revisionist. It's not about the people in power, it was about the media. They controlled the narrative, and they were the ones that convinced everyone of illegal bendy bananas. > The very pro-EU faction at the head of the Tory government. When has any tory ever been pro-eu? i think you're misremembering how things went down.

> I think you're being revisionist

Do you believe that either Leave.EU or Farage’s circus had the power to make a binding exit plan? How? What powers do you believe they had to do so?

> It's not about the people in power, it was about the media. They controlled the narrative, and they were the ones that convinced everyone of illegal bendy bananas

Errr, so the media should have made a plan? Not sure what you’re on about there really?

> When has any tory ever been pro-eu?

Osborne and Cameron were both very pro-EU. Ken Clark (now retired) has always been very pro-EU. Generally the “business is good” side of the Tories were pretty europhile. They have since been hounded out of the party, AFAICT, by the likes of BoJo.

> i think you're misremembering how things went down.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/20/david-camer...

“David Cameron’s government committed an act of gross negligence and deepened the uncertainty surrounding the impact of Brexit by instructing Whitehall not to make any contingency plans for a vote to leave the EU”

Re: Brits would quite like their private messages to stay private

#70

Post by softwaredoug »

In the US we have tech companies complying with sketchy DHS subpoenas that don’t require warrants. We have DoJ targeting political enemies. We have FISA mass surveillance.

It’s naive to think politically motivated surveillance can’t happen in the UK and elsewhere. Or to assume that only the “right people” will be the ones able to break encryption.

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